ext_22937 ([identity profile] lilliburlero.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] trennels2015-02-13 05:59 pm
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Attic Term: Readthrough, Chapters 1-4

Thanks very much to [livejournal.com profile] coughingbear for writing the posts on The Cricket Term. I'm back in the saddle for this one, but if anyone is interested in a post on later chapters of this novel, on Run Away Home or the Players novels, please let me know below or by pm. Discussion proceeds here about exactly what order we're going to do things in: if you have feelings please let us know in comments at that post. Suggestions for themed posts are here.

So, forward to The Attic Term!


We pick up the story again at the end of the summer holiday that is beginning at the close of Cricket Term, leaving a swathe of unnarrated summer into which to insert fic. This has been your regularly scheduled fic prompt. Ginty and Patrick's friendship has clearly developed, and they have privately continued their Gondal fantasy. I enjoy the detail that Ginty finds more opportunities for romance with Patrick's Hamlet in reading Horatio than she does in reading Ophelia, because it's so true! There are! Her continued nervousness around Regina is an ominous sign, though, and Patrick does seem as skittish as Catkin when things get a touch amorous. Ginty's disinclination to talk to Patrick about Monica and vice versa continues the series' theme of Home and School and never the twain.

We learn something of Patrick's school life, and its contrasts with Kingscote: it seems more academically pushy, with O-levels taken early, and with far less of a culture of compulsion around extra-curricular activities. There are hints of Patrick's dissatisfaction with reform in the Catholic Church and his school's enthusiastic embrace of that--Ginty presumably knows something of his views there, because she doesn't enquire why the 'trad' Christmas Play was hastily rejected, though we sense that perhaps Patrick doesn't discuss theology with Ginty very much. (Incidentally, I'm wondering what sort of details might make a Nativity Play seem too 'trad' in a post-Vatican II climate?) It is, in any case, a lot more satisfying to have him expound his beliefs to Nicola in the next chapter, because of the resonance with the ride from Wade Abbas in End of Term. The discussion of plays--whether Hamlet or Eugene O'Neill, furthers the theme of pretence. Patrick cannot act, but he can pretend to be someone--a nice and subtle distinction. This month's number of the Journal of Read It Somewhere Studies tells me that Forest's school put on Marco Millions, which must then have been a pretty new play, since it first appeared on the Broadway stage in 1928. Anyone ever seen it?

'Imagine asking. Suppose you got told,' says Ginty of Unity Logan's officious efforts on behalf of June White, demoted from Candle Angel in the Play in End of Term. Here Ginty asks, and very nearly gets told, but in the last sentence of the chapter decides that there are some things she'd better off not knowing. It's a wonderfully light-touch portrait of two young people who like the idea of being in a romance rather more, one senses, than they actually like each other. The moment at which Patrick shies from Ginty's 'tense, insistent' face and diverts the conversation to Claudie (oh, Patrick!) is brilliant. If he was conscious of what he was doing it would be cruel, but Forest switches point of view to show us he isn't, though I'm not sure that makes him any more likeable at that moment. What do others think of Ginty and Patrick's doomed friendship?





Nicola's awkward presence at cubbing uncomfortably reminds us of happier times she's spent with Patrick. Forest--rather cunningly--doesn't give us Patrick's viewpoint in this chapter, so we're left with the sisters as mutually resentful rivals. I'm also amused by her misunderstanding of the age and state of growth of their quarry, and her perking up when she realises they're not actually sending 'fubsy' cubs to their deaths. Is Ginty's 'resigned sisterly contempt' feigned? It's only just over a year ago in story-time that she was a fervent anti-bloodsports type, after all.

The breakfast-table conversation is notably malicious on Patrick and Ginty's part--I'm glad that Mr Merrick is there to stand up for Nicola. I rather wish that Patrick had got the telling-off he deserves for his bad behaviour at the hunt in Peter's Room, though. I like the oxymoron of '"Yup," said Nicola, automatically doom-laden, her spirits leaping up.' at the news of Ginty's being summoned away to packing.

Nicola's ease with Regina contrasts with Ginty's continued nerves, as the conversation which follows is surely intended as contrast: eccentric but revealing where Ginty's interactions with Patrick are bound by certain conventions and superficial.

'"Though I suppose she is quite used to strangers nowadays"' (ouch, Patrick!) is flagged by the authorial voice as significant; if it implies that Nicola is a stranger, it also suggests that Ginty is one too. Nicola's cheerful acceptance of the labour of sweeping out (the Merrick Boy displaying his extraordinary tact and charm again) eases the atmosphere between them, and their conversation becomes almost immediately quite profound, with Nicola's revelation of Edwin's researches into the farm log. Patrick's moment of reaffirmation in faith (and Nicola's initial misunderstanding of it) is quite touching, I think, the more so because it only makes emotional sense: his ancestor's courage on the scaffold doesn't render his beliefs (or Patrick's traddiness) any whit more true (as Nicola's later, private conviction that nothing is worth Tyburn acknowledges.)

Nicola and Patrick's shared dislike of being 'talked to' in ways they see as patronising by adults perhaps provides a further contrast with Ginty's horror of rows, and offers a distant fore-echo of Ginty and Nicola's later interviews with Miss Keith. I'm tickled and a bit appalled by Patrick's desire for 'masters to keep their distance and answer to Sir' (just like dogs in trouble, splendid bit of landed gentry arrogance from the Merrick Boy there). But he's clearly unhappy enough at school to want to leave before A-levels--I can't imagine that he struggles academically in the humanities, though I can quite believe his own estimate of his maths. Patrick's account of his school assemblies provides the irony that the trendier end of the Catholic Church is rather more low church (with extempore prayer and 'holy pop') than the Church of England solidities that Nicola is used to. In his reluctance to stand up and be counted we see Patrick's shyness emerging again, but perhaps also an ironic contrast with his illustrious ancestor. Later in the chapter, Patrick reflects sadly that there's no real danger involved in his modern sort of recusancy, only the sort of social embarrassment that a 'madly trad' assembly might bring. (I'd be inclined to regard this a very callow and silly sort of nostalgia were Patrick not the sort of bloke who brings an eighteenth-century throwing-knife to a showdown in a medieval dovecote, sees someone killed with it, hops into a stolen Rolls-Royce for a sexually-charged joyride with a teenage drug-smuggler who dies crashing it and then casually passes an ounce of uncut cocaine to his naval cadet friend as a souvenir of a crowded weekend. He's nothing if not a risk-taker.)

Mention of the Forty (Martyrs of England and Wales) places us presumably in summer 1971, since their canonization took place in October 1970. Anyone more up on matters theological than I care to comment on Patrick's views on the Vatican II reforms? How well do they represent traditional Catholicism in general, and Forest's own in particular?

I simply adore Nicola's persistent analogies of the Catholic Church with the Navy, by the way, and her reflections on Ginty's showing off to Patrick by affecting interest in Dante and medieval Latin are delicious. I first read Dante in Sayers' translation, and retain a fondness for it despite its terza rima being pretty cumbrous. (It's the only translation I know that bothers with a linguistic difference between Dante and Sordello, for example, for which I'll forgive it a lot--Sayers' Sordello speaks (rather kailyard) Scots.) But I also rather like The Constant Nymph, whose themes of rivalry and jealousy are obviously relevant here (also the source for Edwin's surname?) Forest seems associatively to connect The Constant Nymph with Sayers through Hilary's admiration of it as a bestseller with artistic merit in The Nine Tailors.

How do people read Nicola's interest in going to Mass? It's picked up again in Run Away Home, and I'm sure there'll be more discussion there, but what do you think her motivations are?

Though really, I think Nicola deserves better than the Merrick Boy, it is delightful to see them happy and self-forgetfully, adolescently earnest together; and by the time Nicola's recalled to Trennels, she's a good deal happier.





The differing reactions of the family to Nicola's arrival are nicely observed, I think, from Rowan's amusement, through Ann's worried humourlessness ('remindingly' is a good adverb), to Lawrie's immediate relating of the situation to her own concerns (the detail that Lawrie has developed a genuine fondness for the Idiot Boy, though, is charming--even if--typically Lawrie, she only does so when he is actually hers.) And oh dear, Ginty's jealous fury. Her anger at her mother betrays her into positively Lawrie-ish fantastic hyperbole ('suddenly famous and interviewed on TV'). Nicola's 'bubble of happiness' breaking as she realises that the conversation doesn't necessarily mean a renewal of her friendship with Patrick is rather heartbreaking though. But at least she's lucky at the dentist. I rather like the subtle difference drawn between 'smug' and 'cat-with-creamy', too: though 'unusually perceptive' is backhanded: Forest can't quite let Ann have her due.





We begin with a glimpse of Mrs Lambert's officious inefficiency, which will later produce some disastrous results. Causation and responsibility are important themes here--the novel is in fact full of 'coughing bears'--which is in its turn, I suppose, Forest's meta-narratalogical commentary on story-telling, its conventions and structures.

Esther's affection for Daks? Affected, babyish or 'scarey' [sic]? Her response to her mother's pregnancy does rather suggest the last, doesn't it? An echo with Nicola's 'one would always much rather it were one of the family', too, perhaps. Flats where they don't allow babies (as opposed to flats unsuitable for)? I can imagine some restriction of the sort in 1930s service apartments, possibly, but it seems a bit peculiar in the 1970s. But maybe people know of similar rules from their own or others' experience?

Ann gets her step to prefect, and is observed in her element with the Junior Side infants. Nicola's expectation of saccharine gratitude for taking Ann's trunk tray down gets a rebuke that is both enjoyable in itself and for the equanimity with which Nicola receives it. I'm also delighted by Nicola's observation of the carpenter's filling in a gap with spare parquet. I always rather enjoy that sort of thing myself.

Miranda's continued devotion to Jan--aw! Complete with illogical wish for her to have failed but not failed her A-levels. Miranda's holiday in Venice (tempered by the realisation that it would be 'gaudy' to send Jan a gift or card alluding to it) contrasts with Jan's postcard ('written small', oh Miranda) from her Norfolk or Lincolnshire home. A Wool Cross works well for either--I like the detail that while Forest is inconsistent about which side of the Wash Jan's hometown is on she has a clear idea of what sort of country she hails from. In case anyone has missed it, here is fic, by [personal profile] legionseagle, exploring Jan's past, and the slight mystery that seems to surround her mother.

Comments on Wendy Tredgold's anti-semitism? Interestingly, both Wendy's implied remark about Miranda's father, and her articulated one about Miranda not knowing about the existence of Oxfam shops are tacitly supported by Nicola. Forest is characteristic in leaving it to the reader to decide whether Wendy really is anti-Semitic or whether she simply resents Miranda's wealth and (it has to be admitted) slight tendency to snobbery: the comments of hers that we hear are insinuating, but only of Miranda's wealth and privilege, not her Jewishness. There's a similar entwining of issues of class and anti-Semitism in End of Term, with the 'common little soul with the perm and the Jaguar'. Miranda is embarrassed, however, by her remark about the 'dreggy uniform dress', which draws attention to the Marlows' relative poverty. It's a very effective and understated sketch of the ways in which wealth does, and does not, map onto social privilege and status.

We see Miranda's unpleasant side in her dealings with Sandra Grigson, who is harmless if rather prolix--Miranda's putdown is startlingly vicious--if again, as Nicola is forced to admit, accurate. Miranda appears as an edgy and unsettling presence here, I think, with Nicola finding herself in agreement both with Miranda and her antagonists. The moment when Nicola wonders if her hurt at Patrick's rejection of her shows in similar ways to Sandra's by Miranda is actually painful to read. I'm mildly surprised that no-one but Sandra recognises Sara Crewe--if Cousin Jon had sisters (and perhaps even if he didn't, though it's perhaps not one that boys would be as familiar with as girls might be), there must surely be a copy of A Little Princess in the Trennels playroom, and Rose would have no trouble identifying the reference. Perhaps this is the flexible timeline coming into play, but I read A Little Princess in the 1980s, and indeed played the rat in a stage version. Burnett's novel, with its reversals of fortune and status and its emphasis on the power of imagination and storytelling, resonate subtly and slightly uncomfortably with this scene and the previous chapters.

Miranda's family, like Patrick's, has an au pair (in fact, 'one of our idiot au pairs' suggests a multiplicity, or a sequence at least, thereof). I'm not really familiar with au pairing and how it worked in practice in the 1970s--but Miranda seems to regard Elsa as a kind of servant, which I thought was very much not the idea. Anyway, it seems unlikely that Miranda has the sort of frisson with Elsa that Patrick has with Claudie, more's the pity.

The Disaster! The coughing bear! I love, 'Nicola meditated briefly on the disastrousness of being not merely rich, but an only child and never having to wear your sisters' outgrown gear.' And Miranda is notably cavalier about the garment, reflecting that ruining it will be no hardship. This passage is growling with potential coughing bears--from Miranda's anger at Wendy's 'nudging voice' to Avril's fear that chickens may come home to her roost.



I think that's enough from me for now. Over to you!

Re: Patrick's views on the Vatican II reforms?

[identity profile] sprog-63.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
Absolutely. I too, was (am) 'Ricardian' having read The Daughter of Time and would be interested to go Latin mass.

Re: Religion and sitting like bookends

[identity profile] jackmerlin.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 07:53 am (UTC)(link)
Absolutely agree. I always found it quite bonkers that any teenage boy would care at all about what happened in the Church (and I'm speaking as a brought-up-Catholic teenager) but I loved that religion was being discussed in the books. What other childrens' or teenagers' books mentioned it at all? Much older, classic books assume everyone is Christian and lay on a Christian message in a fairly heavy-handed way. But I can't think of another author who allows the characters to discuss religion, including the viewpoints of the sceptical but intelligently curious, the brought-up-faithful-but-wavering, and the unfashionably committed.
I wonder if Patrick's obsession with the traditional forms of the Mass is precisely because he is losing his faith.

[identity profile] sprog-63.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 07:57 am (UTC)(link)
We also did Lear for O-level. Mind you, our English teacher did say other staff members had said it was too hard for O-level. "Casually" letting this rare bit of staff room gossip slip out ensured at least one of us set out to prove them wrong. Clever woman!

Re: Patrick's school friends

[identity profile] jackmerlin.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 08:06 am (UTC)(link)
They may be put into groups of three by the teachers, so the other two boys he does it with may not be friends at all; although, that said, it does sound more like the sort of school where they would choose their own groups.
But I can totally see two teenage boys being willing to do it in a way that would be designed to wind up the teachers just for the hell of it. As Pennington certainly would.
I like that Nicola has this effect on Patrick - Ginty would never have suggested such a thing. Patrick has to be braver and a better person being friends with Nicola. (I want to say, maybe that's part of the reason he dropped her, but trying not to wind up the Patrick likers...)

Re: "dreggy uniform dress"

[identity profile] jackmerlin.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
I love those covers too! Whereas the hard-back covers are just weird!

Re: Religion

[identity profile] sprog-63.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 08:13 am (UTC)(link)
I wonder if Patrick's obsession with the traditional forms of the Mass is precisely because he is losing his faith.

Tell me more ... I was as taken aback as Nicola when he speaks of his faith (Faith?) wavering when I first read it!

Re: book covers

[identity profile] sprog-63.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 09:15 am (UTC)(link)
They are my favourite covers too: as you say it is the accurate detail which pleases, as well as the pictures themselves. (Though with respect to much loved books, I also always find that I have certain tendresse for the cover of the first copy I read, even if other versions are more aesthetically pleasing.)

My original copy of Peter's Room was one of Faber ones - and the top half was a Gondal scene; and I liked that bit too (though it had the same weird, unidentifiable faces below). Alas, the book has vanished so I am left with my dust-jacket-less ex-library hardback, saddibus.

Re: "dreggy uniform dress"

[identity profile] sue marsden (from livejournal.com) 2015-02-15 09:25 am (UTC)(link)
"(I also love the cover of Cricket Term, where Nicola and Tim are sitting discussing the team and the Play, and, ominously in the background, *there* is Lois Sanger in scarlet"

Except that t s not quite accurate, as we see the potting shed behind Lois, but Tim says "Is lois advancing on the potting shed or us?" so it should be in front of her.

Re: "dreggy uniform dress"/weird hardback covers

[identity profile] the_antichris.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 09:25 am (UTC)(link)
The Puffin covers are lovely, and I love that the artist has either read the book or got detailed instructions. Not something that happens in all my adult reading! I have the Faber Cricket Term, which has a nice, faithful picture of Nicola and Jan on the roof - and, on the back cover, Miss Cromwell levitating behind one of the ridges. When I see it, I always feel a bit disappointed for her that she never got a chance to catch someone up there.

Speaking of uniforms, the navy is drawn as navy-and-white check, and Jan is in a white shirt and scarlet skirt, which is at least less unflattering than scarlet everything.

Re: Patrick's school friends

[identity profile] scarletlobster.livejournal.com 2015-02-15 09:40 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, very fair suggestions (with jackmerlin's). I have a moment's irritation with the 'pulling out of a hat' thing: it actually sounds more trouble to arrange than just saying "Oh let's have Morning has Broken', and surely there would be someone in the class who liked a hymn or two.
legionseagle: Lai Choi San (Default)

[personal profile] legionseagle (from livejournal.com) 2015-02-15 09:54 am (UTC)(link)
Me too.
legionseagle: Lai Choi San (Default)

Re: Religion and sitting like bookends

[personal profile] legionseagle (from livejournal.com) 2015-02-15 09:57 am (UTC)(link)
I'm with you on that; the interesting and different perspectives on religion were very much part of the charm for me, and I read The Attic Term and The Cricket Term as they came out, when I was about the same age as Nicola and that sort of teenage wrestling with faith, and wondering if you were just in it for the ritual and the music and so forth rang very true. And it just wasn't something that happened in other books.
legionseagle: Lai Choi San (Default)

Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] legionseagle (from livejournal.com) 2015-02-15 10:07 am (UTC)(link)
It occurs to me that the differences between Kingscote and Patrick's school is that it's clear that Patrick's place is one of those hothouse boys day schools (Manchester Grammar springs to mind) who are aiming to get a maximum number of boys through to Oxbridge (MGS used to get up to 60 a year through; don't know what the stats are now) or other competitive courses at competitive universities and everything is geared to that. So you take the minimum number of key O levels as early as possible, on the grounds that provided you get university matriculation requirements (one language, one science, english language and maths, I think it was at the time, with a minimum of 5 O level passes) and then maximise the time during which your pupils are doing 'A' level work, to ensure they get the top quality 'A' levels, and then really push them to 7th term Oxbridge (which, by your sneaky move of pushing them through O levels two terms early, is actually 9th term Oxbridge).
coughingbear: im in ur shipz debauchin ur slothz (Default)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] coughingbear 2015-02-15 10:20 am (UTC)(link)
Oh ! I had never really understood the early O level thing.

I have been wondering what schools might fit as being possibly Patrick's - RC, obviously, independent, day - I don't think there's any indication that there are boarders? And not trad - when the cats let me up will do some investigating.
legionseagle: Lai Choi San (Default)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] legionseagle (from livejournal.com) 2015-02-15 10:32 am (UTC)(link)
I wonder if she invented a sort of Catholic Westminster for the occasion?
liadnan: (Default)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] liadnan 2015-02-15 10:40 am (UTC)(link)
I do find myself wondering why the hell he isn't at Ampleforth, or Downside. If there were boarders there was Ealing but the most likely day-only candidate in London is the Oratory, which is and was staggeringly unlikely to have a trendy head.

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[identity profile] sue marsden (from livejournal.com) 2015-02-15 10:45 am (UTC)(link)
He was at day school in Falconer's Lure as a result of possibly still being not strong as a result of falling down the cliff, so even though he is now fully fit his parents probably thought it would be too unsettling to change schools again so near O levels.
white_hart: (Mediaeval)

RE: Re: "dreggy uniform dress"

[personal profile] white_hart 2015-02-15 10:46 am (UTC)(link)
My school uniform was grey and maroon. Scarlet does sound like a bit much, but I suppose it would have made the girls immediately identifiable as Kingscote girls.
white_hart: (Mediaeval)

[personal profile] white_hart 2015-02-15 10:50 am (UTC)(link)
I think the CS always had the girls changing for Abendessen, though I'm sure books other than Problem mention a uniform evening dress (I have a vague memory in one book of people having to have the same pattern but in any colour they liked, though that might have been the summer uniform dress). But yes, in Problem they definitely have a free choice of what's described as a "semi-evening frock" (whatever semi-evening is) and Joan's is wildly inappropriate.
coughingbear: im in ur shipz debauchin ur slothz (happy ships)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] coughingbear 2015-02-15 10:52 am (UTC)(link)
Me too. [livejournal.com profile] hano and I have just been discussing this and agreeing that St Benedict's Ealing fits the bill most, though we might have to relocate it for Patrick to commute easily. The diocese did run some good schools and in some ways Cardinal Vaughan would fit (esp round the matey reforming teachers - all lay) but I do struggle a bit to see the Merricks sending their son there.

But really we think he would have gone to Ampleforth.
liadnan: (Default)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] liadnan 2015-02-15 10:53 am (UTC)(link)
Yes - I remembered the health thing just after posting. And I suppose it's possible that as well as the risk to him of moving at the wrong time the big Catholic public schools might be reluctant to take late admissions.
coughingbear: im in ur shipz debauchin ur slothz (happy ships)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] coughingbear 2015-02-15 10:56 am (UTC)(link)
Downside would be nearer home, but [livejournal.com profile] hano says it wasn't as good academically in the 1970s.
coughingbear: im in ur shipz debauchin ur slothz (Default)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] coughingbear 2015-02-15 11:01 am (UTC)(link)
Though they don't live in London until they buy the Marlows' house - just had a look at FL and it's rather vague about whether he's only about to start going to a day school or has already gone back to one. If he's not there yet, slightly odd to say he 'absolutely loathes' it? Of course at that point the Merricks aren't Catholics in Forest's mind so doesn't have to be a Catholic school.
liadnan: (Default)

Re: Peculiar O Level Timing

[personal profile] liadnan 2015-02-15 11:10 am (UTC)(link)
That's my understanding too. (And then it seems to have tended to If-style anarchy in the 80s according to this obit: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10983655/The-Very-Reverend-Dom-Philip-Jebb-obituary.html - I knew and rather hero-worshipped a boy a couple of years older than me in our parish who was there at the time but I never heard any of this - hano may well know more)

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