trennels | Continuation of the Marlow line

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Continuation of the Marlow line

The discussion about Kay below made me wonder how many children each of the Marlows would end up producing. I hope this hasn't been discussed before - if so I apologise! My thoughts are as follows:

Giles - lots, of course. Borne by a meek and long-suffering wife?
Kay - not sure. Maybe two, by a later marriage.
Rowan - I haven't decided whether Rowan will settle down in a same-sex partnership, in which case I don't think she will bother with children, or whether she will marry, initially decline children, but then suddenly decide in her mid-thirties that her biological clock is ticking and ultimately end up with two sons.
Ann - Ann will marry mid-twenties and - ironically and unfairly - have great difficulty conceiving. They will adopt two children before she finally produces a daughter.
Ginty - boy and girl? Followed by divorce?
Peter - don't know. Perhaps he will surprise everyone by becoming the real pater familias?
Nick - I reckon four boys, and would quite like them to be by Robert Anquetil.
Lawrie - after a succession of affairs with her leading men (and because she likes to shock and likes the attention probably a couple of leading ladies too), Lawrie will settle down with a somewhat older and very dashing film star, will initially reject the idea of children, but aged 37 will suddenly decide she wants one and immediately and without difficulty produce a daughter, which will really rub Ann's nose in it.

What does everyone else think?

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I reckon Peter's record with Fob makes him good father material.

I think I'd have to read well-written Nicola/Robert to sell me on it - the age gap makes me a bit queasy, which I don't think would bother me if Nicola's main ambition was, say, to win the Ashes with the first mixed England cricket team, but since she's so focused on things nautical and he's already been there and done that...

I can absolutely see small blond children of Rowan's showing up at the Westbridge Infants, meeting a very right-on teacher say 'Now, you have two mummies and that's absolutely OK', looking at each other in very infant-Nick-and-Lawrie perplexity and then saying politely 'We also have New Forest ponies and pigs.'

And dealing very effectively with Peter's offspring who have no little bullying tendency about them?

dealing very effectively with Peter's offspring who have no little bullying tendency about them?

"Mummy Rowan says only fools and the British Army mess around unnecessarily with plumbing. So stop stuffing his head down the toilet."

As far as Peter goes in general, I always thought his disastrous taste in friends might also translate over into disastrous taste in partners, too, though there's always Selby as a beacon of sensibleness.

It's about fifteen years, the gap, isn't it? I can see it, but not with Nicola straight out of school or anything. I envisage both of them knocking around the world for a while, and meeting again perhaps after Nicola gets her first sea command (having bumped the timeline along to allow her to become a full RN officer, which rather does for Robert's war service). It's very unclear whether he's still sailing out of St-Anne's after his father dies just because of the spy problem, and what he's likely to do next.

Perhaps it could be a different war. I like him, but I'm not sure what would draw him and Nicola together apart from both being dashing naval types.

Come on Ankaret, 'Marlows: The Next Generation' is just sitting up and begging you to get it written. Please include the right on KS1 teacher doing some terribly tactful topic work on 'Our Families' and asking Rowan if she could possibly spare the time to give a little talk.

Come on, Ankaret, 'Marlows: The Next Generation' is sitting up and begging you to get it written. Please include the right on KS1 teacher doing a terribly tactful PSHE topic on'Our Families' and asking Rowan if she could possibly spare the time to come along and give a little talk. The children would so enjoy it.

That's interesting that you think that Rowan would have children in a heterosexual relationship but not a same-sex one. Why the difference? I'm not entirely convinced about the inevitability of the "biological clock", but I can't imagine that any ticking would be silenced just because she was gay.

I really don't know why so many people peg Ginty for divorce.

I really don't know why so many people peg Ginty for divorce.

Because she sometimes comes across as flaky with a tendency to bail out at the first sign of trouble?

Yes, as a fifteen year old, who has always existed rather comfortably in the middle of a large family with nothing to really push her! By the same token, Nicola's stubbornness and determination to do absolutely everything on her own and never let anyone see that she might want help has her marked for rather unsuccessful relationships. But I imagine that both of them might be different as adults rather than children in a boarding school where life is made quite easy for them.

Absolutely true, and a real-life Ginty would probably stand as good a chance as many of having a successful marriage. I can rather see her as a suburbanite combining housewife with career woman with a beautiful home straight out of a catalogue and a husband who's big in the Rotary Club. But you asked why so many people see her like that, and of course, we've only got her-up-to-15-or-so to base anything on. Yes, she could easily change once life became less easy and might find that she enjoys the challenge, but what we've seen so far is often vacillating, unsure, afraid of confrontation and effort and happy to take the "easy" option. So, many readers extrapolate from the information given, and assume she's likely to keep those character traits and be more likely to bail out.

That's interesting that you think that Rowan would have children in a heterosexual relationship but not a same-sex one. Why the difference?

I think because she wouldn't be so desperate for children, and going the additional steps required if you haven't got an available source of sperm in your bedroom would probably put her off. She'd get another horse instead. Of course things might be different if her partner madly wanted children, I suppose.

Why would she be desperate for children if she were with a man and not with a woman? I can see that you might more easily fall into having children in a heterosexual relationship, but you said that it was a later decision on her part, so I don't understand why that wouldn't happen if she were with a woman? Also, she's a farmer. She's hard;y likely to be squeamish about insemination!

No, I don't think sqeamishness would be the problem. I think the point is more that she would - as you said - "fall into it more easily" if she were with a man. Though having said that, I did like Ankaret's portrayal of the two mummies, so am quite willing to be convinced!

have just returned to your post with more time to answer properly and realise the confusion - by "so desperate for children" I didn't mean she would be desperate if she were with a man (as compared to with a woman); I meant she wouldn't be particularly desperate at all, and that the extra hurdles would make it more likely that she talks herself out of the urge with usual common sense (i.e. does the world really need more Marlow offspring?). I imagine the insemination scenario would provde more opportunity for in-depth questioning of ones motives than the "Well OK, let's see what happens" scenario. And actually, I too can see her being more likely to be the non-biological mother in a same-sex relationship - though I suppose in either situation she could adopt.

Rowan wouldn't be a biological mother in a same-sex relationship, though, would she? I can just hear her making dry comments about there being no need to add to the number of Marlow-gene-spawn currently laying waste to the local primary schools. She'd be a sensible and supportive non-bio-mum, with a rather amused approach to her kids.

I suppose perhaps not - although I think I tend to picture biological clock stuff as wanting to have children, not only give birth to them.

Oh, it would be frightening if you had hordes of Marlow-spawn in your school. You'd simply have to change profession.

Rowan (whom, we remember from recent fanfic, has a horse farm somewhere in Northern California and comes to do the occasional architecture lecture at Berkeley and eat fine food) will be one of the divorced. Her first partner (I don't care whether male or female, and I'm figuring she doesn't care either) will ultimately decide that she doesn't share enough of herself and is incapable of really deep love, and will find somebody less cool/confident but more loving and empathetic. Their relationship will have been childless, largely because Rowan always made plain that she wasn't going to be a "mommy" type for anybody.

Rowan will spend some time dealing with this break-up, raising horses and designing high-end ranch buildings, and coming to understand herself and what being alone really means. Finally, on one of her architecture trips into Berkeley, she will meet a glamorous (female) art historian with three charming daughters adopted from various Eurasian countries. She will fall completely in love and slip seamlessly into a kind of brusque, amusing, slightly detached parental role. She will introduce these urban, cosmopolitan yet eccentric kids to the joys of riding and the country life. They will adore her as much as their mother does.

OK, so I'm into projection. Who isn't? I always adored Rowan from the distance created by fiction vs. reality, but feel that I'm now ready for her!

*smiles blissfully* But are your daughters ready for Sophia Marlow-Law as a cousin and Lawrie as an auntie? ;)

(Please note, all, that I really don't think of Triptych (http://rose-and-lizard.livejournal.com/17761.html) as in any way an authorised version of the Marlow futures! There is room for all of us to play in the world AF created. Though as I was saying to

coughingbear a while back, I do have trouble sometimes remembering that, for example, the incident where Nicola visits the village school on horseback happened in

forester48's Esther's Term (http://forester48.livejournal.com/1798.html) and not in canon.)

*smiles blissfully* But are your daughters ready for Sophia Marlow-Law as a cousin and Lawrie as an auntie? ;)

Oh my yes. My oldest daughter (age 10) is a truly excellent ballet dancer who loves staging performances and dreams of attending the San Francisco School of Ballet. As real life and fiction come together here, I can see some unexpected Forest/Noel Streatfield crossovers. Hideous competition and envy from Sophia Marlow-Law, while [Rowan's] daughter Margaret is wifty and eccentric and completely unaware of how annoying her natural talent is to those around her. The fact that Margaret lived in an orphanage for the first 7 years of her life will simply add to the Streatfieldishness of it all.

They sound like great kids.

yes, am perfectly happy with this scenario for Rowan. Good. That's HER future settled then!

I agree about Lawrie, except I think she'll produce twins (or even triplets) and have them acting in films aged 6 weeks. Film companies love multiple births to actors, as it means they can use both/all to play the same baby (there's strict rules on how long an infant can "act" for, so two or three looking the same doubles or triples the shooting time).

Cue wails from Lawrie about how she and Nick could have been in films from the cradle if she'd known.

Although at least this way she doesn't have to share any limelight!

I can see her sitting in front of a DVD trying to work out which was which until Rowan shooed her out into the fresh air.

ROFLMAO! I hadn't thought of that, but you're spot on! (Especially with the italics on known.

*grin*

Though someone would probably have pointed out to her in short order that, with three or possibly four other children under five at that point, Mrs Marlow had things to do other than pull eighteen-hour days sitting around on a film set.

And just imagine what Commander Marlow would have said about the idea!

If she was installed back at the (overflowing) London house by the time he returned from the North Atlantic next, do you reckon he'd have noticed?

Which obviously would have been completely irrelevant, and they should have realised that Lawrie was going to be a famous actor, and obviously it would have been a much better use of her time to give Dame Lawrie a real start in films, and it's all just so unfair.

it's all just so unfair

Don't give me terrible ideas for Marlows / Labyrinth crossovers! :)

*shuffles feet and whistles innocently*

I was thinking the other day that Lawrie might do a bit of a Gwyneth Paltrow and end up with Jan Scott's hairy rock band brother. With offspring called, perhaps, Plum and Zerubabel Scott?

And I also agree that there is no real reason to write off Ginty's future just because the Merricks don't fancy her as a future DIL. Outside the Marlowverse she would come across as a very normal teenage girl. I don't think many of us would want to feel we hadn't developed as a person since we were 15.

well, statistically at least two of them will have to divorce, and Ann won't as she's too religious, Mrs Giles will be too busy having babies, Nick will be too stubborn, Lawrie won't actually marry, Peter would see it as a weakness, Rowan sticks to her decisions, so that leaves Kay and Ginty! Anyway, personally I wouldn't see divorce as "writing off her future"; I know lots of very happy second-time round relationships!

I wasn't really thinking specifically of divorce, more the fact that AF fans crystal ball gazing rarely predict a dazzling future for Ginty, in part because of Mr Merrick and Patrick's conversation about her. I think I'd go for Kay and Giles being the statistical divorcees - Kay because her marriage seems pretty doomed from Day 1 and Giles because the future Mrs Giles would eventually get fed up of coming second to his naval career.

I do...
I've always wondered whether Helena Merrick just hates her because she's stunningly pretty and Pater Merrick just feels that Patrick's getting too instense too young - he is VERY intense about everything cf classical music, and I think Daddy probably just wants him to live a little.

I have also been thinking, a lot, about young Virginia's future life, but more of that later perhaps.

I adore the idea of Plum and Zerubabel Scott.

I was rather pleased with the thought myself. If I had one of those round tuit thingies I might even write the Hello magazine article where the celebrated pair introduce their new offspring to a breathless world.
A macrobiotic diet might be a pleasant change from school dinners and Mrs Bertie's traditional cuisine!

Damn! *wishes someone would invent the e-tuit* :)

May I friend you BTW - I have been meaning to ask for ages?

Yes, certainly, that would be lovely! :)

But you've given them all children - too much Marlow spawn, and frankly, I see the Marlows as less baby-happy (in the sense of trigger-happy) than that.

Let's see - Karen is put off for life by Chas, Rose and Fob and does not reproduce, either with Edwin, or in her subsequent relationship with one of her doctoral students, when she is a classics don at St Hilda's.

Children would mess with Nicola's solo sailing tours.

No one will let the insufferably smug Giles close enough to them to give him a chance to reproduce.

Fob grows up to be a dark, chunky, smouldering femme fatale, pursues Peter till he gives in and they have two children, one dark and square-set, the other thin and blonde.

Lawrie gets pregnant by one of her leading men, but decides that Lady Macbeth can't really have a bump, so terminates the pregnancy in 'the Play is All' mode. Ann is horrified. Lawrie rolls her eyes, unable to believe in such wetness, but is subsequently more careful about the pill.

The reproductive fates of the other Marlows are hidden from me... But Patrick is gay, and eventually rejects Catholicism violently, forming a lifelong relationship with a taciturn local farmer, with whom he hunts, hawks and is blissfully happy.

I can more see Patrick having an illicit affair with a Catholic priest than with a farmer. Patrick is just not cut out to be blissfully happy!

As for my generosity in allocating babies - you are quite right, it is a bit over the top, but upper-class families do do a lot of breeding - as Lady Sybil says, it is what they are bred to do!

And then his priest leaves the priesthood for him and then it all falls apart with piles of guilt!

It is wonderful the number of different futures that can be plausibly spun out for AF's characters. I think it's a tribute to her powers of characterisation.

And then his priest leaves the priesthood for him and then it all falls apart with piles of guilt!

Yes that's right. Poor old Patrick! And his poor parents - they'd probably have preferred him to marry Ginty. Though perhaps I underestimate them? Can't someone write a fanfic?

If you're reading my fic you'll find out exactly how many children they each have and in what circumstances!

"But Patrick is gay, and eventually rejects Catholicism violently, forming a lifelong relationship with a taciturn local farmer, with whom he hunts, hawks and is blissfully happy."

And I am now seeing Patrick and said farmer as Ted and Ralph from the Fast Show. Hee.

Promethea

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Continuation of the Marlow line

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