[identity profile] sprog-63.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] trennels
Thank you, [livejournal.com profile] lilliburlero for creating this whole readthrough (not to mention last minute technical help!), and thank you to everyone who contributes too. I can’t decide whether my favourite times are the recognition moments when I read something here and think “yes, that’s it exactly” or when I have to struggle to understand the point of view as it is far removed from mine … together the whole is even more than the sum of the parts.

It has been very interesting to read the first guest post (keeping the standard as nerve-wrackingly high as ever) - thank you highfantastical for prompting another lovely, lively series of conversations. You will see that some of our themes repeat. I had already written some of this post before [livejournal.com profile] highfantastical posted last week, and I decided not to edit out what I had written already. The use of the phrase “poor Peter” occurred to us both (and surely he’d hate that to be his epithet); and the theme of bereavement, which runs through the book and series, is unsurprisingly represented in both posts.

Hope these stimulate further discussion!

One of the delights of re-reading FL, even though I know the storyline well (plot is perhaps too strong a word for this novel), is the way in which the events touch me as strongly as when I read them for the first time. To some extent, knowing what is coming intensifies my emotions and, as a reader, I approach this chapter with dread. Poor Peter: failing to tread the line between the phobic dread of heights and the fear of showing fear, he falls headfirst into shame. I think he’d rather have fallen off the cliff.

This is the second time we read of Peter getting stuck. The first was unwitnessed. Now there is not only Nicola, but worst of all, Patrick: no longer primarily Peter’s friend; but also someone who actually has fallen (from these very cliffs) been badly injured and is quite happy to come here again. I’d have liked to read Peter’s conversation with himself about going on the cliffs (regularly scheduled fic prompt?) Is he spurred on with some optimism for the whole outing by the knowledge that the second time he was on the gallery of the lighthouse he managed fine?
Forest uses very similar words to describe Peter getting stuck each time, perhaps underlining the inevitability of it. “And he couldn’t move. He simply couldn’t let go the rail and stand up.” (MATT) vs “And in that moment, Peter stuck. … he couldn’t move. He simply went on standing there ...” (FL) There is a difference in the way the passages are written though: on the cliffs, Peter’s fear isn’t reported to us, we listen into the dialogue in his mind. Even if you are a little impatient with his behaviour, this moment by moment sliding into panic must bring with it some empathy for Peter. I relish the literal insights we get in the “stream of consciousness” passages, here’s another one: Patrick thinks through whether he’s been sensible in sending Nicola off that if she and/or Peter are killed it will be all Peter’s fault (my itals). Poor Peter, surely Patrick is the coughing bear here? I’d have liked to hear Nicola’s thoughts when passing Leeper’s Bluff going for help too! And finally, to add insult to injury, Patrick describes Peter as a “lily-livered loon”. Nicola had used these very words with scorn in MATT describe anyone who might be scared of heights. Patrick doesn’t know this, of course, but we do, and Peter does.

Geoff Marlow’s fury is inevitable; fuelled by his aforementioned anger of people who put themselves in unnecessary danger; the knowledge of Patrick’s accident; and the fact that for the second time in a few months Peter and Nicola could have died. In MATT, Peter reflects, “A fine officer he was going to make if he bellowed at his subordinates every time he got in a flap.” But isn’t this exactly what Geoff Marlow does here in the row which “rumbles on and on”. Is Peter a bit hard on himself? I tend to take for granted Peter’s poor opinion of himself: but is it justified? We hear these rows obliquely (perhaps an invitation to fic here from anyone who shares Miranda West’s appreciation of a glorious row? ) but like the characters we are left in no doubt the cliffs are out of bounds “ ... forbidden, finally and forever … on any pretext whatsoever.” And it is in these days between disasters that Patrick and Nicola’s friendship is sealed.

Rowan, hovering between adolescence and adulthood: riding in a gymkhana against Patrick and discussing leaving school to take over the farm. Here, Patrick’s lack of ability to see things from other perspectives is blatant. I enjoy the quiet thread throughout the series, of the way Patrick does not “get” school and school priorities. In these genre books which transcend genre, Patrick demonstrates indifference to the very things which a school story is made of, almost subversive perhaps?

If FL doesn’t exactly have a plot, it certainly has themes and one of them is bereavement. Death comes quite frequently to children’s books (not least this series as [livejournal.com profile] highfantasticalpointed out last week), but bereavement, grief, and mourning are less often dwelt on: which is yet again where AF’s writing is lifted far above most others. Jon’s death and the uneasy and complicated emotions it arises is echoed in Jael’s death. All three of them are utterly horrified, and for the second time, Peter is on the receiving end of distress-related fury. For Patrick, it is a second bereavement in a couple of weeks and he loses it and becomes foul to Peter because “he felt so hurt and sorry over Jael’s death, he wanted to make sure someone else was hurt too”. But there is no moralising from Forest, just scenes which play themselves vividly before my eyes and I am scared, even re-reading it, that there will be no way back for Peter and Patrick. Again, Poor Peter.


It is with a sigh of relief I come to Chapter 8. In its own way it is exciting, but I am not drawn in emotionally to the same degree. Possibly because I am a non-performer I cannot get fully involved or worked up about Lawrie’s angst over parts and performances. I think she feels things genuinely, but am still sometimes irritated by her. (Perhaps something to return to in EOT and CT?)

The conversation between Nicola and Lawrie on the eve of the Festival is illuminating: Nicola is still cross with Peter. He is usually high on her liking list, she has not put together how dreadful this summer is being for him, and Lawrie can’t really draw her into any sympathy and she doesn’t soften towards Peter for another week. In a prophetic warning, Nicola suggests Lawrie rehearses properly. Reading it now, it shouts out at me: does anyone recall if they noticed it on first reading?

One of the things I enjoy about this large family narrative is the way that the relationships are not wholly fixed or stereotyped. The scene with Ann, Nicola, and Lawrie is a potent combination to illustrate the shifting alliances between the siblings, as well their different beliefs about their talents and the value of a performance. For a moment Nicola and Ann are united in sympathy against an over-confident Lawrie, but very quickly everything returns to the familiar position of Nicola and Lawrie despising Ann.

It’s not until Nicola comes across the other competitors, whose mothers all know one another, that I thought, why on earth did the Marlow parents not bring the girls in in the car? Can someone explain (in either Doylist or Watsonian terms?) However, both Ann and Nicola seem quite happy with the idea that their parents are only coming in to see Lawrie. And at least this way, no-one needs to know that Nicola was overcome by emotion (do you think she ever tells anyone?) I love the way that Nicola is able to laugh at the prospect of herself crying at the sadness of her own song “while everyone waited respectfully for her to go on” (another prophesy). As she goes through the song, Nicola believes she has successfully suppressed her emotions; but an unexpected trigger means she is engulfed in a wave of distress. The emotion is purely for Jael. After the competition, she is “wild with pleasure … galloping through the narrow side streets, with the adjudicator’s words jostling and spinning in a glory in her head.” No suppression of emotion here, where no one she knows can see.

In this chapter, we see Lawrie at times showing unexpected maturity (even Nicola is surprised at the depth of knowledge Lawrie has about the stage) and also at her most baby-ish, being comforted by Nicola as if Nicola were years older. Can someone tell me if Lawrie’s involuntary imitation (parody?) is likely (and/or likely to be so immediately recognisable by everyone) ?

Some of my favourite passages are at the end of the chapter. Meg and Nicola’s conversation about Treasure Island is a jewel, but I enjoy this whole section where we have rare sight of Lawrie not being an ass.

[livejournal.com profile] highfantasticalasked last week, “Does Lawrie’s gift convince you?” Yes, it does me, utterly and completely. From both Doylist and Watsonian perspective: yes. In AT it was clear that her performance was as good as she wanted it to be. Ellen Holroyd is impressed (even cynical Meg is) and throughout canon there is no voice suggesting otherwise. And then there’s the prophetic, “In time, Nicola was to learn that theatre people often behaved like this to those outside their charmed circle …” This is a rare authorial voice telling us Lawrie’s future is on the stage. That’s my view anyway - looking forward to seeing the other side!


We come to “Lost Hawk” which gives us a bit of a hint about what’s going to happen next. (Actually, I like Forest’s chapter titles, they have a certain charm about them - and they certainly make it easier to look up incidents I want to refer to!)

In spite of the triumphs of the previous chapter, this is a sad book. This chapter, while superficially an “adventure” story, also adds to the two major psychological themes of the book: fear and loss. Many of the characters in this book have at least one fear (even the Idiot Boy), some amounting to phobias: the difference here, as in life, is how they choose to deal with them. (How would Rowan, Ann or Giles cope with having to deal with a Peter or Ginty level phobia? )
Having lost Jael so traumatically a week or so ago, Nicola and Patrick are now pursuing a lost Regina. Well, we were warned that hawks led to heart break. And to think, Forest meant to write a pony book! Can you imagine a pony book where one child shoots another’s pony? I had a quick look at Jill Badger’s marvellous website and it does indicate that not all pony books of the era were as anodyne as Ruby Ferguson, but even so. But I digress ...

The chapter begins with a hot, tired, and grumpy Nicola who has been accompanying Patrick on the search for Regina. Patrick notices this, but isn’t quite sure what to do about it. Her mixed emotions are detailed for us; boredom, physical discomfort, empathy for her father not wanting to traipse across the country searching for hawks; hint of feeling anxious and out of her depth; awareness of Patrick’s desire to find Regina; and wanting to find Regina herself (not least because then they could go home). Nothing, interestingly, about enjoying being with Patrick (perhaps because this is another example of Nicola coming in below the hawks (thank you [livejournal.com profile] occasionalhope and [livejournal.com profile] highfantastical)). Patrick is certainly in the lead here, and for once, Nicola isn’t being being brave and resourceful, I think she just wants to go home. Her contribution to the dialogue is monosyllabic. Forest doesn’t specifically refer to her fear of open dark countryside, but as the evening draws in Nicola has lost her customary sang froid. Instead, the fear we are starkly shown is Patrick’s. And Nicola, who has confronted her fear of riding, is concerned about worrying her mother, and is essentially lost as the evening darkens and preparing to face her own fear, is sympathetic.

For me, here, AF loses her light touch on genre (riding across the country, sleeping in a haystack complete with convenient ladder, all seems more Blyton/Ferguson than Forest to me). However, the prospect of sleeping in a haystack, and fulfilling a dream, seduces Nicola from unwilling consort to eager companion. Then we leave Blyton far behind: the metaphysical conversations between Patrick and Nicola are pure Forest. Thinking about their futures, catapults them back to Jon’s death* (as is the way with sudden death: all conversational paths lead there). Later, their numinous discussion sends Nicola, enchantingly, to sleep. (Though doubtless there will be those who feel Patrick simply bored her to sleep). Do you believe in the Merrick ghost? Is the subsequent fall off Leeper’s Bluff a co-incidence?

Lost hawk ... found hawk ... Nicola fears another dead hawk … then the surprise: Patrick releases Regina. The hawk, which was “sort of Jon’s”, and which Nicola was going to care for is released without discussion - and Nicola seems to accept this completely. She does try harder for Sprog but Patrick is adamant: Sprog must go too. Is this for the practical reasons he gives, or is it more of a dog-in-manger approach: if he can’t have Regina (or Sprog) he cannot bear to let Nicola have them? Or perhaps a way of avoiding reminders of Jon?

After the adventure, the emotional swings, the closeness, the chapter ends flatly and abruptly with Patrick’s dismissal of The Sprog.

************

* This brings us a problem: if Cousin Jon had less than half his time he was presumably younger than 35 when he died, and as I think we generally put Geoff Marlow as 45+ here, that’s quite a gap for the holiday cousin / playmate. We could perhaps stretch it to under 40 (as they also talk about living to 80) but still a five+ year gap is more than is implied in the breakfast chapter. More folds in the timeline or can someone make better sense of this?


Well, that’s it from me (and to think, I worried I wouldn’t have enough to say). Thank you, one and all and especially [livejournal.com profile] lilliburlero for the opportunity. Now I look forward to hearing from everyone else …..

Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-02 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antfan.livejournal.com
Ruby Ferguson - anodyne? Can't accept that one! A genre writer - but surely a very witty and amusing one, and subversive in her way.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 09:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antfan.livejournal.com
Actually, although I wouldn't generally compare Ferguson and Forest, I think they both have a bit of a gift for riffing off the genres they are writing in - both of them refer explicitly to other books in their type of genre, (at least Forest does in the school stories) - but also keeping within the conventions too - ie culminating in the triumphant school play/gymnkhama/cricket match.

Jill quite often remarks that in a book her adventures would turn out very differently, and not with "lugging a lame pony across the fields with my arms full of sopping tack or similar" (quote something like that anyway). Rather like Lawrie, she tends to be always fantasising about the latest pony adventure she has read - so when she meets Miss Crombie she starts comparing her to a book called "Lady Di and her Arab" and when she goes pony trekking she has been reading a book about pony trekking in Ecuador and can't help comparing her own more humdrum adventures.

I think it's Jill's voice, and her wry observations about the differences between fiction/reality and of the adult world, that gives the book their charm, even as an adult, as well as their more escapist qualities which is obviously incredibly appealing to kids. (And she never sleeps in a haystack, by the way, that I remember.)

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-06 12:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] highfantastical.livejournal.com
I love the narrative voice of the Jill books. I don't think they're comparable to Forest in literary terms, but they are absolutely delightful for what they are, and far above the average pony book, IMO. And I agree with you, they do sustain a lightly ironic engagement with the genre which just adds to their pleasures.

Have you read (or has anyone?) Joanna Cannan's We Met Our Cousins and (the sequel) London Pride? Also EXTREMELY funny and much above average pony books. I would highly recommend to admirers of Jill. WMOC made me laugh out loud, which fiction very rarely does. Republished recently-ish, I think by Fidra (iirc).

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-06 01:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antfan.livejournal.com
I haven't read those but I've read Canaan's "A Pony For Jean" (beautifully illustrated by Anne Bullen) and which is surely the reason that the first Jill book is called the rather odd "Jill's Gymnkhana" and not the more obvious "A Pony for Jill", because this would draw attention to the fact that so many key elements are surely based on Cannaan's book. (I do love the Jill books as I've said - but the first one does owe a lot to Cannaan.)

"A Pony for Jean" is very amusing with a lovely narrative voice also - again, I'd highly recommend it.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-06 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs-redboots.livejournal.com
Joanna Cannan was the mother of the Pullein-Thompson sisters, all of whom wrote pony books in their own right. Or own write, if you prefer....

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-06 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] highfantastical.livejournal.com
And 'Fair Girls on Grey Horses'! Their joint memoir, very enjoyable, which I remember reading as a teenager. Nice to find out more about Joanna Cannan, too.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-13 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schwarmerei1.livejournal.com
I didn't know that. I was a fan of Josephine's in particular.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] colne-dsr.livejournal.com
Ruby Ferguson could write about death.

"We went inside and looked at the marble people lying on their tombs, and spent a while in Poets' Corner arguing about who was there who shouldn't be, and who wasn't and should.

On the way out, just before we reached the west door, something happened that I shall never forget. Paul suddenly stood still and said in a clear and carrying voice, "What do you have to do to get buried in Westminster Abbey?"

People round about looked at him, as people often did look at Paul. He was tall for his age and handsome, dark-haired and blue-eyed like Father, with a touch of grace and an air of dignity that made him look older than his age.

"Father, what do you have to do?"

Father said, "In the old days, if you were rich enough you only had to pay for it. Now you have to be famous."

"We've got a hope," said Timmo.

"Speak for yourself," said Paul. He stood for a minute in thought and then we all walked on.

After many years I have paused on that very spot, and pictured my brother's slight, erect figure, and even seemed to hear his voice in that casual question of his. At my feet lies the grave of the Unknown Warrior.

"

(Children at the Shop, An Autobiography of Childhood, Ruby Ferguson.)

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 09:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antfan.livejournal.com
That all sounds very serious and un-Jill-like. I've never read the Children at the Shop and have wondered about getting hold of it, though having read Lady Rose and Mrs Memmary (republished by Virago) rather put me off. There was not a flicker of humour in Lady Rose, completely different from the Jill books. Would you recommend Children at the Shop?

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 12:09 pm (UTC)
ext_6283: Brush the wandering hedgehog by the fire (Default)
From: [identity profile] oursin.livejournal.com
I think it was Persephone who republished LR & Mrs M - which struck me as massively inferior to E M Delafield's Thank Heaven Fasting about the awfulness of the upper-class marriage market for the young women caught up in it - and EMD of course manages shafts of wit and humour as well as sheer horror in her narrative.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antfan.livejournal.com
Yes, you're right, it was Persephone. Beautiful-looking book but disappointing. Will look out for the Delafield book - did very much enjoy the Provincial Lady books. Remember reading a Mary Wesley book which I'd say was about the marriage market too - Not That Sort of Girl - chilling stuff.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 05:22 pm (UTC)
ext_6283: Brush the wandering hedgehog by the fire (delafield)
From: [identity profile] oursin.livejournal.com
Delafield's other work can be a bit of a shock for the reader expecting something in the Provincial Lady line - however, I'm not sure any of them are quite as thoroughly depressing as Consequences, though Nothing is Safe about a brother and sister following their parents' divorce and remarriages, is pretty grim.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] colne-dsr.livejournal.com
I would definitely recommend Children at the Shop. As the subtitle suggests, it's a memoir of childhood, and a happy childhood at that. That quote is an especially poignant one, but (apart from that) the book is almost entirely cheerful, and very entertaining.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-03 07:23 pm (UTC)
legionseagle: Lai Choi San (Default)
From: [personal profile] legionseagle (from livejournal.com)
Slightly off topic, but relevant to quietly subversive pony book authors, [livejournal.com profile] clanwillian told me a splendid story about a literary gathering where everyone was ignoring Josephine Pullein-Thompson - a children's writer and pony books, can you imagine? Until Salman Rushide appeared, ignored everyone else there and went straight to the sofa on which she was sitting with the full "Josephine! How splendid to see you, mwah, mwah" bit. She'd been President of English PEN during the fatwa, and joint composer of the statement condemning it.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-06 12:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] highfantastical.livejournal.com
Ha! Blissful story.

Re: Ruby Ferguson's Jill books

Date: 2014-08-13 01:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schwarmerei1.livejournal.com
Oh! I commented upthread about how I was a Josephine fan in particular. This anecdote delights me. :-)

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