Readthrough: Run Away Home, Chapters 5-8

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

Nicola and Patrick make up: the detail of his holding open the gate for her (as well as indicating Blackleg's dressage manners) is a nice touch, I think, bringing to mind him nearly treading on her the year before. The Merrick Boy's educational future is considered (this has been your regularly scheduled fic prompt), and Nicola's continued interest in attending Mass signalled. I'm amused by their slightly delicate negotiation over her possible conspicuousness. What do people think Mme Orly's sympathies in re Vatican II might be, since Patrick raises the issue? (Slightly ticklish for continuity purposes, for back on the End of Term timeline, she was attending Mass in the Merrick chapel, so he ought to know.) I reckon she's pretty trad.

I'll leave reflections on Patrick's doubts about Ginty mostly to the comments, but her decision to spend the holidays with Monica seems to have lowered her quite rapidly in his estimation: while I appreciate the reference to Ginty's hygienic separation of her most important friendships, I think (pace Nicola) that 'does [Monica] actually exist?' is a strange question (does he imagine that Ginty has holed up in Trennels and told the family to lie about her whereabouts?) and the question about whether Monica's injury is genuine suggests he's standing in rather presumptuous judgement--we know Ginty hasn't acted in the best of faith, but assuming from from her lie-by-omission about the legality of phoning that she's also invented Monica's indisposition seems a leap motivated by bruised amour propre rather than honour.

I share the Merrick Boy's horror of parties, and the thought of being forced by a parent breathing down one's neck to retract a declined invitation brings me out into a cold sweat. Sometimes it's not easy being an MP's son with a social position to maintain, I guess, though given that he'd probably be in a young offenders' institution if he wasn't, my grief is containable. 'Mangy female' is not, one reflects, the sort of language with which fair lady is won, though Nicola doesn't protest. And surely girls in the early 80s were not still hanging about waiting to be asked to dance at parties?

What happened to make Giles 'give up on' Kay? This has been your regularly scheduled &c. Forest's deleted scene in which they discuss Kay and Edwin getting a divorce presumably occurred here? I have read Celebrating Antonia Forest, but not since shortly after its publication (when there were still gaps in my reading of the series), and I don't own a copy. I like this little conversation between Giles and Rowan, their unforced, officerly rapport and shared propensity to slope off down the pub. We do get a little bit of contextualisation--though scarcely justification--for Giles's later irresponsibility: he seems to have inherited Jon's capacity for risk-taking. Much as I like the glimpse we have of Jon in Falconer's Lure, I'm with Geoff on the wisdom of taking small boys to sea in highly unsuitable craft, I think. I also like the mirrored recollections that Giles and Patrick have of one another in this chapter ('Big Brother [...] knocking around with Jon'; 'dark-haired skinny little boy with yellow eyes'.)

Mmm, whiskey mac.





The Old Shippen is, presumably, Chas and Rose's 'hide-place' when the Marlows are away at school, and it is here that the plot thickens. I wonder if it's the best environment for storing 300-year-old farm logs (even without runaways hiding on top of them)? Nicola's bemused reaction to the discovery is a treat, but Chas, Rose and Edward 'united against the outsider' is a powerful and rather upsetting image.

More discussion of Patrick's future: the Merrick boy in the army is a fairly horrifying thought.

More Dodd domesticity, with a frisson of risk in Chas stealing mince-pies for Edward. Dripping-on-toast seems slightly out-of-place in a middle-class household in the early 80s, to which Nicola's mention of that amazing invention, sliced bread, seems to draw attention. (We had dripping for chips in mine.) I'm heartened by her adolescently vast appetite, though: growth spurt, presumably.

The cast-of-thousands panto is treated with typically Forestian acerbity; its modest genesis and over-ambition perhaps chiming with certain more successful Kingscote efforts. Over-length and complexity might echo the carol service of Attic Term too. Nicola and Edwin's pas devant routine is pretty good. Karen has grown more tolerant of 'hordes of young', with her appreciation of the raven dance and so forth--here she reminds me rather of Ann, slightly ill-at-ease but nonetheless determinedly helpful and optimistic. There seem some minor signs of strain between her and Edwin, whose deprecation of the play is rather excessive. Not that it bothers Chas, who is irrepressible, or Rose, who would prefer not to. But I agree with him about the scrubbing roster: how dirty is that village hall? Glad to see that Ann pursues her brothers as well as her sisters for it, though. Nicola's sudden recollection of Edward is effective: I think one of the things the novel does do well is to contrast the (albeit sometimes unstable and difficult) domestic lives of the Marlows and Dodds with his houseless condition. Even so, Nicola is horrified at her own neglect, not at homelessness per se--which may suggest that Forest is attempting to explore motivation here: the Marlows' actions in regard to Edward perhaps being driven by an abstract sense of the honourable thing to do rather than a thinking-through of his welfare.

Lawrie's got over her horror of horror films, we see, and shares the taste with Mrs Bertie. Her showing off about the Shakespearean theatre is fun, too.

Nicola's fear of the dark is evident again here, and there's a slightly farcical quality ("not people" is good) to Nicola and Peter having independently found Edward. Edward is well characterised as wary, traumatised and silent, and the conversations afterwards among the siblings afterwards might (at a stretch?) be read as a critique of the Marlows seeing him as a Cause rather than as a fellow human. Interesting that family feeling seems to trump likelihood of silence in Peter and Nicola having no reservations over telling Lawrie, where Peter havers over telling Patrick, seeing as Lawrie's propensity to spill might exceed even the infant Dodds'. Lovely little moment of tension in Peter's wishing that Ginty was around to absorb Patrick's attention... There's a sense too of Edward as Cause in the way that Peter and Nicola decide to take over from the childish efforts of the Dodds--marking the start of a process that will see the quarterdeck members of the family involved: perhaps it's possible to read their actions as a kind of collective folly resulting from family hierarchy--older siblings compensating for the perceived incompetence of the younger without really considering the wisdom of the overall enterprise.

Patrick provides an outsider's viewpoint which is helpful in deducing what Edward's plans might be. His ignorance of Edward's situation is presumably owing to having been in London until very recently: but I wonder whether it's come to Anthony Merrick's attention? I think it's probably important that Patrick's not getting on well with his father at the moment--it strikes me that Anthony might be sympathetic to Edward's situation and prepared to use his influence to help, but the estrangement between him and Patrick means that avenue doesn't suggest itself. Peter has very definitely taken Edward on as his Project, however.

Edward's dismissal of the pantomime as 'just for children' strikes a perfect note, I think, of the odd mixture of maturity and its opposite often found in troubled kids.




Fob proves to have a Talent for Crime (an older Fob getting up to all sorts presents itself as your regularly scheduled &c.) Peter's attempt to get Edward to talk is a neat bit of characterisation of both of them, I think: the recognition that Nicola would have perceived Edward's huntedness and desisted--perhaps to better effect, where Peter bangs on regardless, is particularly telling. (Dept Marlow carelessness with their family artefacts/Trennels is a TARDIS, we have the jumbled fossil collection of a Victorian ancestor.)

A little reminder of Peter's fears in his avoidance of hunting, and also perhaps a reminder that he hasn't quite lain aside a propensity to face his terrors in rather unhelpful ways--'start letting oneself off and it could easily become a habit'--I wonder if he could be persuaded to apply that stern line of thought to washing up?

I do think the parallel between Chas's disappointment and Peter's at Edward's disappearance is masterly: different in degree, but perhaps not entirely in kind--Peter's plans are more realistic than Chas's, but they are essentially based in an idea of adventure rather than reality at this stage.

That's a bloody pile up on the M1, crikey. The revoltingly chirpy tone of the news broadcast does have the authentic note of local radio all right.

A panto so bad that even Lawrie can't be bothered with mentally improving it! The, um, dramatic irony of that will become clear, but this has also been your regularly scheduled &c.





The failure of the Lower Decks to see the New Year in continues the idea of a disrupted and untraditional holiday season. (Lawrie remembers that it's the first of the month but forgets that they didn't see in the new year: how does that work, btw?) I don't know the twelve mince pies tradition that Giles refers to--can anyone enlighten? Couldn't Giles take Nicola to the pub instead of another chilly picnic? I've never known a pub to object to children and younger teenagers who are having a meal accompanied by adults, during the daytime.

What do people make of Ann refusing to lend her bike? Is Forest nobbling her again by making her seem an just an enthusiast of all things modern rather than a genuine ecumenist? She's got a point in seeing the Merricks as the actual schismatics; rather less so in her dismay that her mother isn't keen on the Alternative Service Book? (Another dating point, I find, on reference to the wisdom of the internet, the ASB was introduced in 1980). I'm not sure how true that rings of Mrs Marlow's character: I would have seen her perhaps more pious in observance than the sometimes atheistical Rowan, but not much more interested in doctrine. Or perhaps it is just the language of the ASB services she dislikes? Peter's point on the strategy of argument here takes us back to Ann and Giles's barney in the train. Something they teach them at Dartmouth, perhaps? And ghoulish Lawrie, relishing the thought of her mother and Ann at odds over religion!

What do people make of Nicola's reaction to Mass at the Merricks'? Forest is quite conservative about conversion narratives: Miranda's curiosity about Christianity in End of Term turns, a year later in book terms, into quite a firm affirmation of Jewish identity in Attic Term. (Though she still has her taste for the improbable.) Forest was perhaps aware, writing Run Away Home, that she didn't have enough momentum left in the series to take Nicola through a conversion and hence wraps up with Nicola's feelings of a slightly uncanny sense of belonging--satisfying her own religious sentiments and identification with her protagonist, rather than producing something that's terrifically likely in terms of Nicola's character? On the other hand, that feeling of 'better not, might get hooked,' has a touch of 'from the life' about it--I wonder if it was her own initial response or that of a convert she knew.

Chilly picnic notwithstanding, Giles and Nicola seem to have a good time. I find the Mr Fitton books a bit flat compared to Forester and Patrick O'Brian and wish Nicola had found Master and Commander instead, but she'll probably like them nonetheless. Nicola seems to have returned to the idea of a naval career for herself.

Edward returns to the Marlows' life with his letter, now inevitably involving the senior siblings. Lawrie tactlessly says what everyone's thinking about Ann (I'm only disappointed that Ann doesn't retort with a vivid affirmative: profanity isn't really in character there, but Yes, and I'm bloody glad too would still be very satisfying). I always giggle at Giles's performative decision-making pose, and imagine that it is burlesqued exquisitely by the personnel of every ship he's ever served on. I don't think Forest ever fully and convincingly accounts for Giles and Rowan's participation in the exercise: but now's the time to debate that in the comments--have at it?

It's a nice narrative device to interrupt this with the Holdens' party. What do people make of Patrick's cultivation of boring Becky Martin? In this fic, ankaret suggests a terribly plausible outcome.

Family conference! Patrick's mistake about its location underlines the extent to which this has moved out of the hands of the Lower Decks, but he reveals himself as having a logistical mind which earns Giles's approval. The plan evolves in an interestingly ramshackle way: it really is done by committee, and has all the proverbial disadvantages of such a project. Lawrie seems almost a caricature of herself here: I relish the way in which the family talk her round to impersonating Edward, but surely she can't be ignorant of how a boat is transported by road? The irony of Nicola expostulating that Giles and Rowan are insufficiently criminal, so soon after being tricked by Miss Keith's amateur interrogator's antics in Attic Term is funny, but it raises a question too: there's plenty of lip-service paid to risk and illegality in this scene, but it seems very little actual consideration of consequences (and most of what there is is left to Rowan to articulate). I'm interested that Rowan seems more concerned by the disadvantages of Surfrider than Giles is: this strikes me as a replay of arguments that Geoff and Jon, respectively, had about her. Peter's dismay at Giles considering Rowan a more competent potential crew member is a wonderfully uncomfortable moment ('I wouldn't have to wonder whether or not you'd cope'--ouch! And Rowan's acknowledgement that her qualms about Surfrider are at least partially qualms about Peter going rather than her, double ouch.) Though Peter's column-dodging is proved to have its usefulness... Ann's entrance with the tea underlines her exclusion--at first self-imposed, but then hurtfully reinforced by the family's decision to deceive her. The chapter ends with another example of Patrick's ingenuity, and the suggestion that despite their very salient differences, Giles and he might forge some sort of a friendship. Lots more to say about this, I'm sure, but I'll leave it to the comments.



All yours, folks!

Comments

Dripping

[(Anonymous)]

I remember asking for bread and dripping for a snack as a child, because it was in books.

Kate C

Re: Dripping

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, they might be doing that or they may have acquired the taste during butter rationing, which it's difficult to forget they lived through.

They aren't actually using the stuff from a block that's for making chips are they? That would seem a likely option only for the very poor. I always assume it's from a roast and has a meaty flavour.

Mrs Kent

Surfrider to the Scillies

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

I have to say, I'm absolutely flabbergasted that Jon lived long enough to die in a test crash.

It's my personal belief, by the way, that Forest got a competent sailor to read through the sailing bits but that odd references slipped through and this has to be one of them.

Weymouth (which I'm taking as the nearest standard port to where the Marlows are, though Poole may actually be slightly closer) is about 180 miles from the Scilly Isles and there are long stretches of the trip (such as the long run across Lyme Bay) where there's no immediate bolt-hole if the weather goes nasty.

There are tidal gates (places where you have to go through when the tides' with you, otherwise you hang about going backwards for up to six hours) at Portland Bill (off which there is also a tidal race) as well as Start Point and the Needles.

Once you get to Land's End the Atlantic meets the Irish Sea in a dirty great mess of confused sea. Just to make matters more interesting, the Scillies themselves are no more than 137 feet high at their highest point and comprise over 200 islands, islets, rocks and reefs any one of which can sink a boat if it hits it, and most of them have, many times over.

And then you have to turn back and do the voyage all over again.

Now, it would have been a perfectly feasible journey in Talisman or the Golden Enterprise those being properly equipped off-shore craft with auxiliary engines, water tanks, depth sounders (probably), navigation lights, cabins and so forth.

It's certainly possible to do in a boat like Surfrider (see the Wayfarer website if you want to hear more about people doing improbably long distances in improbably small boats) but it would have taken four or five days (longer if they got becalmed) and the risks would have been frankly horrendous.

Re: Surfrider to the Scillies

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

There's a note thanking people who helped 'knowingly and unknowingly' with sailing info and naming two of them--'Dick and Gay', who presumably did the main checking. Forest clearly seems to have picked up (perhaps from listening to 'unknowing' informants talk about undertaking it in more suitable craft?) that the trip to the Scillies might be a dicey one, but seems to have wildly underestimated just how dicey.

Giles, Peter and Rowan

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

Giles has a nerve, hasn't he? Dumping the farm duties on Rowan for the sake of his career and then when she has to do them, getting stroppy that it interferes with his plans.

He is, however, absolutely right in his fundamental judgement that Rowan is a far better bet than Peter as crew; not least because she's fundamentally trustworthy and isn't going to abandon the job she's been given because she's had a Better Idea which results in far more risk.

Re: Giles, Peter and Rowan

[jumpingpowder.livejournal.com]

Do we definitely know that Giles would have inherited the property all himself? I know it worked that way in the older generation, but do we think it's entailed (if that's even still possible) or might this generation be planning to split it? (Disclaimer: no stately homes in my family to split)

Professional thought

[oursin.livejournal.com]

I bet Edwin is carefully sniffing each volume of farm log for active mould as he receives them! Also, I would not be surprised if he lies awake at night wondering how best to approach the 'they would be much better off in the local record office' issue. As he has only recently started in post, maybe he has too much else on to be pro-active about in-laws' own archive?

I'm also now wondering about the Merrick family papers!

Re: Professional thought

[occasionalhope.livejournal.com]

I cringe every time I read that chapter.

I feel it's the awkward family situation of RMF which prevents Edwin from encouraging deposit. Or possibly Mrs M says she must wait until her husband comes home on leave to decide?

Whisky Mac

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

Incidentally, I particularly detest young men who assume what I'm going to drink, even if they get it right (especially since Rowan appears to prefer her whisky straight).

Re: Whisky Mac

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

I've always assumed it is her tipple, when she's not in shock over Mr Tranter, but it would be just like Giles to buy a woman the drink he thinks she should have rather than the drink she actually wants...

[antisoppist.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how true that rings of Mrs Marlow's character: I would have seen her perhaps more pious in observance than the sometimes atheistical Rowan, but not much more interested in doctrine. Or perhaps it is just the language of the ASB services she dislikes?

I remember the fuss when the ASB came in and the joint parish my parents were in disagreed over it, with one church going for modern language Rite A and the other going for Rite B which kept the thees and thous. I think that might also have been when the Sign of Peace came in and people started standing awkwardly in pews worried they were going to have to hug each other in the middle of the service. I can see Mrs Marlow as a traditional go-to-church-because-it-is-what-you-do don't-talk-about-it kind of person who would rather it all just stayed the same, whereas Ann sees a modern-language service that everyone can understand and join in with as progress.

It's not quite a parallel with Vatican II in the Catholic church because I do remember non-Prayer Book C of E services in the 70s too but they were only every fourth Sunday in the month and my family tended to avoid them. Also, as its name indicates, the Alternative Service Book was supposed to be an alternative, not to cut out the Book of Common Prayer entirely, although in our parish it did. The Marlow rector does seem to be offering it as a once a month optional alternative.

[antfan.livejournal.com]

I have relatives who are life-long atheists who still bitterly resent the ousting of the St James version. It's an entirely aesthetic thing.

I've also got an elderly neighbour who is believing who stopped going to church when they introduced what I think is the Sign of Peace (which I think is a kind of hand shake? at least in her church ) and a few decades later took up church going again, but goes to the very early service where apparently they don't do said hand shake.

Two Niggles

[antfan.livejournal.com]

Number One - Why does Edward speak such good English when he's been brought up in Switzerland? Even if he's been living in a hotel it seems very unlikely he would be so fluent. Switzerland isn't even a country where English was widely taught at school due to having so many official languages of its own. It suggests a big effort on Felix's part to produce such fluency in his son, which does seem to speak well of Felix's good intentions re making sure Edward retains those links with his mother's side.

Number Two - Lawrie watching Psycho in the afternoon: which channel would be showing that in 1980?!

Re: Two Niggles

[buntyandjinx.livejournal.com]

Yes, the Psycho in particular rang totally wrong to me. As did girls hanging around waiting to be asked to dance. One of the problems with the book in general: too many anachronisms/inaccuracies.

Re: Two Niggles

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

All my Swiss acquaintances (a massive statistical sample of 3!) learned English at school. And I imagine that Felix did continue to speak English at home sometimes. And Edward has been in England some months at this stage: that might be enough to improve a good basic grasp of English to something that sounds quite fluent in ordinary situations. I'm kind of glad Forest didn't try a Claudie-esque accent in this case: she does a better job by making the way he speaks simple but sometimes rather stiff--and his general taciturnity might represent uncertainty in speaking English as well as his other troubles.

BBC 2? I remember old films being shown quite a lot on telly in the afternoon in the late 80s, (there was Channel 4 to do it then of course as well): Psycho didn't strike me as odd, and I can see its appeal for Lawrie, who as far back as Autumn Term is interested in studying actors' portrayals of villainy.

Re: Two Niggles

[sue marsden (from livejournal.com)]

And Peter says he won the cine camera in the diving comp when actually it was a photography competiotion. Also there is a discrepancy in the volumes/loose papers of the farm log from Peter's Room and RAH

Doesn't have the same feel as the rest of the books?

[(Anonymous)]

I never could get into this one as much as the others. I find Thuggery Affair ridiculous, and Attic Term gives me awful nail-biting anxiety, but they both feel like part of the series to me, even if they're not my favorite. This one just feels flat, like Forest's sense of who her characters are is somehow lacking. Does anyone else have that reaction? Apologies if this already came up in a previous thread.

--Katy

Re: Doesn't have the same feel as the rest of the books?

[antfan.livejournal.com]

I'm enjoying it more than previously with this readthrough, especially the end chapters with Giles and Peter, but I agree that it feels flat too. The writing never really lifts off, and the characters don't have the same depth. I like Lawrie, for example, but I also feel she's now only there as comic relief (same in Attic Term) whereas previous to that she had her own dilemmas and traumas. (I also don't buy that Lawrie would have gone along so readily with the abduction plot, given her extreme fears in Thuggery.) Ann and Giles...enough said. And the central "issue" is dealt with so superficially - in Peter's Room there's that big discussion of the morality/dangers of fantasy with Karen, and in Thuggery there's that whole big discussion of Karen's motivations while in the bath, but here - the only real discussion of the ethics/psychology of the whole thing is "off stage" before Patrick comes in from the Old Shippen.

Can't help thinking that Forest herself must have thought RAH not so great or she wouldn't have stopped. And I'm glad she did really, rather than a tail of lesser books. I wonder if she found herself losing interest as she lost contact with the generation she was writing about, or whether there was just a decline in her powers? If the first, I wish she'd turned to writing more historicals...

[mrs-redboots.livejournal.com]

Dripping-on-toast seems slightly out-of-place in a middle-class household in the early 80s

What can you mean? Boxing Day breakfast isn't Boxing Day breakfast without turkey dripping on one's toast! Always sad when my brother hosts Christmas, as he keeps it for himself and we don't get any!

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

I take your point (the jelly under a good free range chicken is a thing of beauty and a joy forever), but the Marlow Christmas dinner was expressly stated to be goose so it can't be turkey dripping.

Mince pies

[bridgetblood.livejournal.com]

I can answer the mince pie mystery as I went to my grandson's class carol concert in December, ("carols" being interpreted very broadly) where one song included in the chorus:

I ate them all, and I'll tell you why -
You get a happy month for each mince pie.
I should be happy for years and years
Cos I've mince pies coming out of my ears!

I had never heard of this before then.

Re: Mince pies

[(Anonymous)]

I've heard this too; you get one happy month for each mince pie that you have eaten.

Are Trennels and Marriot Chase moving further apart?

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

Why does Nicola need a bicycle or a lift to get to mass? In FL and PR she was running up and down between the places several times a day, early morning before breakfast in FL and after dark in PR. In Attic Term the distance had stretched to be 10 mins drive in Mr Merrick's car. Do ancient family homes slowly expand away from each other like planets?

Re: Are Trennels and Marriot Chase moving further apart?

[(Anonymous)]

I've always assumed that cross country with a hawk or on a horse it is a reasonably short distance, but in a a car or wearing a dress (?) you have to go down the lane , round the corner, etc etc.
Pip

Edwin

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

Having sat through various childrens' performances I absolutely love Edwin's line to Karen, 'You're confusing artistic appreciation with relief that the end was in sight.' I like both Chas and Rose getting it and laughing too.
I also like Nicola thinking that at least Edwin wasn't going bald 'which was the main thing' as if that was the worst thing that could happen to a husband.

Re: Edwin

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

Me too, as regards favourite lines in the book (given EoT, I like the idea of Edwin and Mme Orly getting together and being surprised what they had in common about amateur performances.)

Picnic in the car.

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

I find Giles and Nicola eating sandwiches in the car in January utterly bizarre. Does anyone know a young man in his twenties, earning his own money, who would rather eat a cold picnic than go to a pub/restaurant/cafe? In previous books they've never had a problem finding places to eat. And minors could certainly go in pubs to eat with adults.
Another niggle. They go on their shopping trip on New Year's Day. In my memory, at that period, shops were firmly closed on Bank Holidays. It wasn't yet the era of shops being open evenings/Sundays/Bank Holidays that we are used to now.

Re: Picnic in the car.

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

I agree that Giles is a big old meanie for not taking her to a caff at least. Is Forest remembering a time when New Year's Day wasn't a Bank Holiday, perhaps? Not so in England until 1974, apparently.

Mme Orly

[(Anonymous)]

I thought that Patrick assumes (or knows?) that she is trad and is wondering where she finds her Latin mass in Paris.
Pip

Re: Mme Orly

[(Anonymous)]

I thought Patrick was asking about Mme Orly's opinion of Vatican II, and whether she attended traditional or new style Mass.

The only time Patrick is shown talking to Mme Orly is in EOT when he arranges for her to join their Mass; though presumably, as she's still visiting in PR she continues to attend the Merrick chapel until she goes back to Paris.

Both these books predate Vatican II in real time, so the issue can't have come up between them then. Given Patrick's shyness, he might not have wanted to ask Mme Orly directly even if he'd had the opportunity (would it be seen as impolite or not the done thing for one Catholic to ask this of another?)

MHeloyse

Rose and Chas.

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

What do people make of Rose and Chas' plans to get to Switzerland with Edward. They seem too old to me to have really thought they could make it. Was it a romantic fantasy of helping Edward or do they want to run away themselves? They always seem quite happy and settled when we see them with Karen. Do they associate Switzerland with their mother? (It was an Alp her plane flew into it, wasn't it - copy of RMF not to hand?)

Re: Rose and Chas.

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting point about the Swiss association with their mother - that had never occurred to me before.

I saw it more as a romantic fantasy than a genuine wish to run away because they were unhappy. In RMF Chas refers to Rose's 'hoard' as being for when they had to be refugees, which is a similar idea.

When I was about 7 or 8 I had a romantic fantasy about running away from home, not because I was unhappy but because I thought it would be an exciting thing to do. I even kept a bag packed for a while, but it was never a serious intention (there was nowhere I wanted to go!)- if there'd been others involved and a reason to do it, it might have assumed the greater proportions of the Dodds' plans.

MHeloyse

a Nicola conversion?

[antfan.livejournal.com]

Forest is quite conservative about conversion narratives

I was wondering about the mechanics of a conversion, if Nicola did want to become RC at a later date. Assuming that it was the Merrick Trad variety of Catholicism she wanted to convert to, how would this have worked – would it simply have been a matter of finding a sympathetic priest, or would she have had to express a lot of support and enthusiasm for the post-Vatican II version in order to get taken on as an official RC? I can't see honest Nicola being prepared to do that – or the Merricks wanting her to do it, giving the way they “dig the integrity racket” to quote Jukie. At the same time, I don't think the Merricks would easily countenance Patrick ever marrying a non-Catholic either. I wonder if it might have been awareness of potential difficulties that might have steered Forest away from a possible Nicola conversion.

(I don't quite agree with you about Miranda making “quite a firm affirmation of Jewish identity in Attic Term” by the way. It seems to me she comes over as someone rather on the outside, observing others, rather than in any way immersed in a particular tradition, though not as someone who is hostile to Judaism either. Though certainly there's no hint that whatever interest she developed in Christianity following the Christmas Play has developed any further.)

Re: a Nicola conversion?

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if Patrick himself might find it easier to be married to a non-Catholic like Nicola, who has no strong religious views but is sympathetic to his Trad position; than to a progressive Catholic with whom he'd constantly be at odds over theological issues. AF presents the Trad Catholics as very much in the minority - if that's really the case, it might not be too easy for Patrick to find a Trad woman to marry.

In FL Patrick mentions a cousin who is a Vicar, in the context of being someone he could go and stay with, so there must be some Anglicans already in the family with whom the Catholic Merricks are not at odds - so the Merrick parents might be OK with marriage to an Anglican/agnostic - perhaps with the proviso that any resulting children were brought up as Catholics.

If Nicola did want to convert, is there any reason why the Trad priest who offciates at the Merrick chapel wouldn't be able to instruct her/receive her into the church?

MHeloyse