Rowan

[tinyjenny.livejournal.com]

Hello - I am new to this community and I've loved reading the posts. One thing I feel whenever I read the Marlow books is that I cannot warm to Rowan. I admire her and I can see her many good qualities but could never imagine actually enjoying her company or feeling as though I would want to be her friend. She seems quite brusque and insensitive and judgmental, despite her evident capabilities. However, I always get the impression that I am pretty much alone in this view. Am I? Does anyone else feel anything like this? I warm more to the characters who are more obviously flawed like Ginty and Lawrie. I also like Esther very much and relate to her. But Rowan - I respect her but I cannot warm to her.

Comments

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Interesting, because the character I like best is Rowan!

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

I'm sort of ambivalent towards Rowan. While I like her as a character, I too find it hard to warm to her - I'm not sure I think her insensitive or judegemtnal, but certainly brusque and ever truthful, even if it does hurt. I think that if I were in the Trennels/Kingscote world, I'd like Miranda and Jan and Ginty among others, but I doubt I'd like Rowan much, even if she were my sister. She certainly wouldn';t be someone to whom I went for comfort if I were upset, though I might go to her for clear-eyed advice.

Basically, she does have many admirable traits, and is a good character in the novels, but she's got a very hard shell, which we only once get through, I'd say, at the end of Run Away Home. But perhaps that's because of being stuck with the family firm at what is really a very young age.

[anstruther.livejournal.com]

I like Rowan a lot. But she is very ready with stinging comments (like Tim) and I don't admire her habit of falling out with people: Lois and Karen spring to mind. For someone who's otherwise not given to looking backward, she certainly seems able to carry a grudge. No doubt Mary-Lou will have her cured of that in two shakes of a lamb's tail!

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Never been a fan of Rowan myself. I find all that hearty capable no-nonsense tough stuff off-putting and intimidating. Like tinyjenny, I find the weaker, more flawed characters a lot more accessible and appealing.

On the other hand, I don't find Tim to be like Rowan at all. Tim isn't hard and principled in that way at all: she can be cutting, but she's also playful and witty, and amusingly crafty about getting her own way.

Rowan

[colne-dsr.livejournal.com]

I've always thought of Rowan as a relatively minor character, along with Giles - which is odd, because Rowan's in most of the books and Giles only appears twice. Maybe because it's the school books I read most, and she's only really in one of them. I do like Rowan, but I think Miss Redmond was not far off the truth when she said she had "a rooted conviction that no-one could ask more of life than to be [Rowan] Marlow".* I think there's a fair degree of truth in it, though I wouldn't mean it as nastily as Redmond did.

(* actually said about Nicola, but including Rowan as well. End of Term.)

Re: Rowan

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. Redmond's comment pinpoints precisely what I find most tiresome about Rowan and Nicola, and - perhaps - all the more self-confident Marlows (and which makes me occasionally want to root for Marie Dobson, Sandra Grigson and all those considered terminally wet by characters with more prestige). I've always found Miranda's comment about how it will become a 'Marlow privilege' to wear the navy uniform forever and ever amen both revealing and irritating. It's a salute from one Alpha Schoolgirl to another. (Although, as I write that, I find myself wondering whether, if there were no Marlow Tribe at Kingscote, individual Marlows might not tend towards wetness. Would Lawrie alone, even with her acting and sports talents, be any kind of golden girl without Nicola to suppress her flakier side and shore her up against the world? What about Teacher's Pet Ann?)

On the other hand, I enjoy Rowan's realism, and the clear-sighted, unemotional way she gets on with things. I much prefer her rather solitary Rowan-the-Trainee-Farmer incarnation to Top-Rung-School-Games-Rowan, leading endless teams into the Valley of Death with a muddied hockey stick clasped beteen her teeth. I suspect Rowan is harder to take, also, because we never see her moments of self-doubt from the inside, while we know that Nicola's keeping-up of the best traditions of the service etc etc is underpinned by discomfort and insecurity at times.

Re: Rowan

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

I've always found Miranda's comment about how it will become a 'Marlow privilege' to wear the navy uniform forever and ever amen both revealing and irritating. It's a salute from one Alpha Schoolgirl to another

*Yes*, well said. I've always found it hard to explain what it is about Miranda I don't like, and you've spelt it out nicely. It's that air of haughty supremacy she exudes, of being above others by right.

(now I'm curious to hear *your* take on Tim... are you a fan or a detractor?)

Re: Rowan

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

Another Alpha Schoolgirl, I suppose, vile to non-Alphas (although what is Lawrie, a Beta Schoolgirl? An astonishingly babyish flake who happens to be a brilliant actress, and also good at games, so at times is an Alpha?) and edgy around other Alphas - her relations with Miranda and Nicola are always interesting (as when N caves in to singing solo in the carol concert, because she can't prevail against the combined efforts of the two other Alphas) and her choice of Lawrie over Nicola as a friend.

Actually - reading over the above, I make Kingscote sound like a silverback gorilla sanctuary. But Forest is terribly interested in the various facets of charisma and popularity and pecking orders, and people who opt in or out. Part of why Jan Scott is interesting is that she has everything necessary to be Queen of the Sixth Form, but refuses to play, which only adds to her charisma.

Re: Rowan

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, more interesting analysis here. You really should give a paper on this at the forthcoming Antonia Forest convention, you know. 'The Silverbacks of Kingscote' or some such.

After that shameless bit of flattery, I think I'll put my LJ where my mouth (keyboard?) is and add you to my Friends list. I am more than able to handle Real Person Slash, as specified on your Info page, though I fear our opinions may diverge on the subject of the wise and whimsical Tom Bombadil...

Re: Rowan

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

Shameless flattery is always welcome to my Friends' list, with or without concurrence on Tom Bombadil. (I post increasingly rarely, and posts tend to be either RL moans or LOTR RPS with Sean Bean as grumpy but besotted protagonist.)

I am planning to attend a children's literature colloquium in March which will have a session on Forest, though I'm not giving a paper, as I'm trying to finish a book.

Re: Forest convention

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

I am planning to attend a children's literature colloquium in March which will have a session on Forest, though I'm not giving a paper, as I'm trying to finish a book.

Ahh, but are you attending the Antonia Forest convention in late June this year? You do know about it, don't you?

What will the Forest paper be on at the colloquium? I'm sure many a member of linguaphiles would be more than happy to get a transcript.

Oh, and good luck with the book. What's it on? I'm currently struggling to finish one as well, as you may have gathered from my LJ.

Re: Forest convention

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

Here's a link: http://www.kent.ac.uk/english/. No titles, but the speakers are good.

Yes, I had heard of the AF colloquium, but very much in the context of it having probably been booked out already (I'm a rather late discoverer of AF LJ and web resources), so hadn't really thought about attending...

I'm going to be discreet, as have minor horror of LJ identity becoming known among colleagues or undergraduates, and say I'm editing a collection of essays on a contemporary Irish novelist, and writing one on a gloomy dead modernist. I have been - and will be again - enthusiastic about both, but am currently thoroughly tired of them ...

I've only glanced at your journal enough to note with amusement various Chinese terms for bowel movements - are you an academic? I've been assuming, based on various comments, that everyone here but me is a lawyer.

Re: Forest convention

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

are you an academic?

Heaven forfend!

It depends on how you define 'academic'. I survived to the end of a PhD (in cross-cultural psychology), but the pain incurred put me off working in academia afterwards. Instead, I turned my casual, grant-has-run-out job into a career, and am now a self-employed cross-cultural consultant. I still spend quite a bit of time working at universities, though, mostly training staff about international student issues and how to manage them.

Re: Rowan

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

what is Lawrie, a Beta Schoolgirl?
One of the (many) reasons I am fond of Lawrie is that she seems to have opted out of the rankings. She’s done it in a different way from Jan Scott, who just realises that all this is completely irrelevant to important things, because Lawrie thinks her acting is trimmensely important, but she’s not especially bothered about impressing people because they are her class-mates; she want to impress everyone indiscriminately.

Re: Rowan

[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

Actually, one of the reasons I got so into the series when I was Nicola's age is that I could wholeheartedly agree that no-one could ask more of life than to be Nicola Marlow; bright, good at games, able to sing, slender, blonde, not bad looking, with that landed property and Navy security in the background....It seems quite reasonable to accept one's good fortune if that were so.

Re: Rowan

[(Anonymous)]

True enough, and I agree, she would seem to be the ideal role model (for girls, at least - I'd need to drop the e off "blonde") - it's just that I can't find the right adjective meaning "self-satisfied" without automatically adding "smug".

Personally, I think Redmond's remark was a bit catty. I think she's still sore about guides - she did seem to take it a bit personally when Nicola wouldn't rejoin.

Re: Anonymous

[colne-dsr.livejournal.com]

Sorry, keep forgetting to log in. That last post was by DSR.

[tinyjenny.livejournal.com]

I am with tabouli here. I don't find Rowan to be like Tim at all. Tim amuses me more and she is cutting but not in a forthright way. It is interesting to see how different people relate to the same characters so differently.

[anstruther.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify, I did not intend to say that I thought Rowan and Tim were similar (and I didn't think I had).

But I agree it's interesting to see how differently people perceive the characters.

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you thought Rowan and Tim were similar as characters... I was just musing on the contrast between Rowan's stinging comments, which are biting and blunt, and Tim's, which are no less stinging, but delivered in a wry and playful manner.

[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

Chipping in a bit late, I'm very fond of Rowan, and I think she's got a raw deal in the books. I agree she comes over as very tough, but I think she's just pushed beyond her limits a lot of the time (such as when she has to cope with Kay announcing her engagement when she's just witnessed Mr Tranter's stroke and had to deal with that on top of possible swine fever and all the routine work of the farm, and all that everyone remembers is that she comes out with a tactless (albeit perfectly accurate) remark under the influence of whisky on an empty stomach and shaken nerves.

Rowan

[(Anonymous)]

Joining in this discussion far, far too late (I only found this community in the last week), I nevertheless wanted to add something as I really enjoyed the above comments. Agree totally that from the perspective of the mere mortal schoolgirl, Rowan is quite terrifyingly confident and lacking in any human vulnerabilities. I never believed I would like Rowan if I knew her (I'm sure she would be far too scathing about me and all my insecurities!) but aged 13 I really, really wanted to BE Rowan. Even more than Nicola, Rowan represented everything I wanted to be (and, I convinced myself, undoubtedly would have been, had I only been born into another family with another hair colour!)

[emylno.livejournal.com]

Hi! Sorry, I know I'm late posting on this thread, but it's the most relevant one here to what I'd like to say!
I just want to say that I really like Rowan Marlow! Without much reason, I just warmed to her immediatelly. I think that she and Giles are actually my two favourite characters. I think I can identify with them because I'm the eldest-but-one in my family of five children, and I often find myself having to play the 'strong stoical and capable' role, and just 'get on' with things when I don't always want to. I like Giles because he is so capable, and Rowan because I get the feeling she may not really be inside, but feels she has to.

I think it would be really interesting to see where everyone here 'is' in their family is terms of siblings (if you have any) and the role you play/played within your family- and then to say who you like/identify with most in the books. Somewhere in the Marlow family there must be a representative for everybody! My sister likes Ginty best, and I can see why, because she's the youngest-but-one, and is a bit of a 'free spirit' and very much likes to do her own thing.

My problem is, that I've read a rather strange collection of the books- Autumn Term, The Marlows and the Traitor, End of Term and The Thuggery Affair, and I'm about to read 'The Players and the Rebels'. Not very much Rowan in any of those- except Autumn Term. Which book shows the best character development of her in your opinion? Whichever it is, I'm keen to read that one next!!