Of hobbits and old men

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Some questions for the Forest Folk:

1. In Cricket Term, Miss Kempe suggests that Lawrie read Fellowship of the Ring to give her a better idea of the sort of creatures Ariel is. On which creatures do you think she wanted Lawrie to model her performance? Surely not the hobbits, who are of the rustic, earthy persuasion. But who, then? The Black Riders fit the "almost immortal but less than human" bill, but they're also menacing and creepy, which Ariel isn't (not from my dimly remembered reading of him, anyway). The ethereal, melodious elves, perhaps? (I also wonder about AF's take on LOTR, writing that into Cricket Term. Did she read much fantasy?)

2. In Ready-Made Family, Peter refers to Edwin several times as "your old man". Are there parts of the Anglophone world where "your old man" is used for "your husband", or is Peter using it in a more literal sense, because to him Edwin is so old? In Australia, "your old man" is, as far as I know, only ever used to mean "your father".

Comments

[nzraya.livejournal.com]

1. Definitely elves, I think. The point is that Ariel isn't mortal, and so can't feel things in the mattering sort of way that humans do (see also the gods of the Iliad). Tolkien's elves aren't just ethereal, graceful, lovely, etc. -- they're also rather inhuman, because when push comes to shove, they know (except for Arwen) that they're taking ship for the Western Lands, and none of the things that matter so desperately to the mortal creatures of MiddleEarth ultimately affect them.

2. Yeah, "the old man" can be a synonym for "husband" as well as "father" - sort of male equivalent of "the missus." In fact, I'd say I've seen it more in that usage than the other ("father"), in British contexts.

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Isn't there some old Celtic legend about the Western lands where people (or elves) go at the end of the age? This theme also turned up in Nancy Springer's Isle trilogy, where the elves take off to Elwestrand beyond the sunset.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

'My old man said foller the van
And don't dilly-dally on the way...'

Yes, the expression 'old man' is, or has been, used for for husband in UK.

[darth-tigger.livejournal.com]

I've certainly heard "old man" to mean husband. And in some parts of the midlands/north of England, "mother" often means wife and "our kid" almost always means younger brother (occasionally sister).

Our Kid

[(Anonymous)]

Just a note.

Where I come from (Lancashire, UK), 'Our Kid' just about always means an older brother. Bit confusing. That's why to say to someone bullying you at school or somewhere: "Our Kid'll thump you" is more of a threat than it sounds.

[mrs-redboots.livejournal.com]

Yes, "The old man" is frequently used to mean a husband here in the UK. It does depend on context, slightly.

What's more, a genuinely old man - someone in his 80s, for instance - is often referred to as an "old boy", as in "The old boy's pretty marvellous for his age, isn't he?"

I remember my brother and I referring to my father as "the old man" - but we were young then. These days, we refer to him as "the old boy!"

The vagaries of the English language!

[richenda.livejournal.com]

The "old man" is the head of the family - so might be father or husband or both.