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[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

Anyone want to talk about "the canon" in terms of what the Marlows (to say nothing of Patrick, whom they quite clearly regard as the dangerous intellectual, in the old Russian joke sense ("Why do the KGB always send three people to make an arrest?" "One to read the charge out, one to write the accused's answer down, and the third to keep an eye on the two dangerous intellectuals")) regard as normal to have read at the ages at which they are portrayed, whether it could be regarded as in any sense normal except for an ultra-bright kid at a particular era in British educational thinking, whether the presence of "the canon" is/was objectively more daunting or exhilarating for (i) us at the time we encountered Forest (ii) a hypothetical child at the present day reading Forest for the first time?

Comments

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

I hadn't actually got that from the Marlows' treatment of Patrick. We mostly see the relationship from Nick, who is two (three?) years younger, and so I saw the gap in their reading - although it's more of a difference - as down to that. Can you expand on him being the dangerous intellectual?

I do remember in Cricket Term when Nicola sends Miss Whoeveritis reeling with a mention of Haklyut, so that at least has some notion of being unusual, although of course that's not quite what you're talking about. I'm also thinking of Ginty doing an enormous show-off to Patrick for him to lend her the dangerous intellectual books, when what she liked was things like The Constant Nymph.

I always thought it was weird that Nick hadn't read A Little Princess. So the rest of their reading didn't particularly bother me as a 90s child. There were lots of books they talked about that I hadn't read, but then it was apparent that they hadn't read some of the books I had. I was reading my way through AF on one library ticket and Asterix on the other, and I didn't think that Nick would have read that. But now I do think it's rather pretentious, if I think about it at all. But that's part of the suspension of disbelief process I do when I read AF.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Apart from commenting that there are a range of allusions from Surtees (quoted in Peter's Room) to Star Trek (I think in The Attic Term) and that Peter has heard of pulp classics of a bygone age such as Three Weeks, don't have any intelligent thoughts to communicate, as most of my brain has, like my luggage, not caught up with me yet.
Except to ponder, is it that Patrick is particularly intellectual, or that Ginty is doing that classic feminine-mystiquey thing of showing interest in the interests of the male?

[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

I think Patrick is seen as having intellectual interests beyond those of the Marlows - even though Ginty isn't the brightest Marlow. Look at the Tennyson and such he quotes when riding in the dark, and Four Sacred Plays et al. After all, he is Ginty's age. Of course, he's the only child and has had those months on his back with nothing to do but read so one can imagine he's precocious, also.

[coughingbear]

Meant to reply to this ages ago...

I agree about Patrick's intellectual interests - Nick's very impressed by his books when she sees them in Falconer's Lure, most of them being 'the sort of fat histories Kay read'. She respectfully recognises Neale's Elizabeth (1934) and Chambers' Thomas More (1935). Pretty standard for someone interested in that period in 1957 when FL was published, but clear he has a lot of others as well (wonder if he read Christopher Hill's English Revolution?). He also appears to have Churchill's biography of Marlborough, which is quite a dedicated read.

In general, I adored it when Nicola liked books which I liked (Sayers, say), and would seek out ones mentioned that I hadn't read. Am pretty sure that's how I found Mary Renault, seeing the name in the library and recognising it from the library book hoo-ha, and Ready-Made Family, which I read a bit later, definitely sent me in search of the Gervase Fen books. And though I quite enjoyed them, can't imagine how Kay could possibly prefer them to Sayers.

(Oh, and I remember blushing when I read the bit about Ginty's show-off with the Sayers Dante translations. Not that I pretended about them to someone I fancied, but I definitely read them to show off a bit and 'prove' that Sayers was a Serious Writer.)

[widgetfox.livejournal.com]

Mostly I remember Ramage (which I'd never heard of) and The Mask of Apollo (which I'd adored), and how very, very much I liked Nick for wanting to keep both books.

I was always surprised by how little she knew about the Brontes, and pleased that (unusually, and like me) she didn't think Jane Austen a goddess.

My sense (backed up primarily by the conversation about Hakluyt, I think) was that Nick's reading was somewhat eclectic - that she'd read things that most children of her age and class would not have, and not read other things that one might have expected. Which I found immensely comforting, because the same was true for me. But that made sense in the context of Nick's character, because she pursues her interests actively and is about as far from being a sheep as it's possible to imagine.

I think the slightly odd sum total of reading matter is informed by the bizarre timelines of the book - a child in 1950 might read very differently from one in 1970, and the reader gets some of both.

I also remember The Constant Nymph being the epitome of downmarket reading in something else, possibly Noel Streatfeild, so I'd always read that as being the equivalent of a secret passion for Heat. Which Ginty might have, today.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

It crops up in Sayers, and I wouldn't call it downmarket exactly: it had acertain amount of respectable litcred in its day.

[alchemyangel351.livejournal.com]

I also remember The Constant Nymph being the epitome of downmarket reading in something else

Excessively late and very random comment - Hilary Thorpe in Sayers 'The Nine Tailors' says to her dying father that she will write novels, "The sort that everybody goes potty over. Not just bosh ones, but like The Constant Nymph". I always took it to be a reference to fashionable modern literature.

[(Anonymous)]

At the time I found it not at all intimidating, I think because I was a voracious reader and my distracted mother had allowed me free range on their bookshelves to keep me quiet, so I read a great many "adult" books without understanding them fully (I mean really, Women in Love at 13?). I think perhaps the Marlows and Patrick were like that - ranging far and wide.

Also, I think Nicola and Patrick both resent being treated as children - hence Nicola wouldn't have read the Little Pricess because it's a bit kiddish.

I gather Tennyson etc used to be shoved down kids' throats in a rote learnt way. My grandfather can quote great swathes of poetry and Shakespeare despite not having read them since he was at school because he was expected to memorise them.

(sorry for posting anonymously - I have been lurking here for some time but have forgotten my user name and password!)

[melandraanne.livejournal.com]

I read my first AF (End of Term) at the age of 15, when I was suffering from 'boarding school withdrawal pains' - the first six months or so had been the bliss of being home, then I began to miss it awfully. And having gone through nearly every school story I could find, Kingscote seemed most like 'home'.
Some of Nick's reading choices were familiar at the time - I'd read Ramage and most of Hornblower, and a lot of Cromwell's reading list had been either school books or things I'd picked up to read when desperate. I get the impression that there were a lot less childrens' books available, especially in the remote area I was living (this is a good 30 years ago), so I quickly moved on to the adult books ...

The thing that suprises me most is how many books the Marlows have introduced me to - including Mary Renault, Sayers ... I even found a copy of Mr Fitton's Commission !