Fairness in the Marlow household

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the fair/unfair treatment of the Marlow young by their parents. I'm thinking specifically the treatment of Nicola by her parents/mother in Cricket Term. Is there anyway this could have been handled better? Should it actually have been Nicola who was going to have to leave? Should they have told her or dropped it on her in the summer holidays? Should they have removed all the girls, or perhaps just both twins?

For that matter, should Lawrie have been given the Prosser? (I know this wasn't her parents' decision, I'm just interested whether people think it was a good judgement call on the part of the staff.)

In a similar vein, what about the horse business in Peter's Room? Was it fair that their mother bought Ginty a horse for her birthday, and said no-one else was to ride it? Was it reasonable to buy herself one before ensuring the children all had equal access to a horse for hunting? In effect, she created a situation where one daughter was the only one in the family who was unable to go hunting (without hiring a horse), which seems harsh to me. But then, I'm from a small family where such unequality with gifts never happened - is this normal for a large family? Was Lawrie's reaction reasonable, or did other readers take it as just one more example of her throwing whiny tantrums?

These two occasions seemed to me to best illustrate Mrs. Marlow's failings as a mother (and also perhaps where the children got their selfishness) - I wondered if anyone else felt the same.

Can anyone else think of any other examples of this kind of thing? Or of fairer treatment?

Comments

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

I don't necessarily mean Mrs. Marlow was a bad parent - just pointing out some of of what I consider to be mistakes. And I'm sure they wouldn't want her any other way.

I think perhaps the "one big random present" thing is more normal in large families, and you're right, we don't know if the others have had similar large presents at other times. But I do think hiring a horse was a bit of an issue, in that obviously a pretty talented rider (I think we're told Lawrie is quite good) couldn't stay the course of the hunt because the hired hirse she is one goes "lame".

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Except Lawrie *isn't* that talented a rider. She ignores the horse's needs in favour of her own pleasure.

And it's also the first time we hear of her being that into riding - while she likes the idea of being co-owner of the Idiot Boy, she's clearly not keen enough to fork out any cash for him and you'd wonder just how much work she'd put into taking care of him.

[owl]

She likes the Idiot well enough when she finally gets to own him (as long as someone else is mucking him out, IIRC), but she's still coveting Ginty's pony.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

When does she ignore the horse's needs? When she realises the hired horse has gone lame, she dismounts and walks it back to the stables, only to discover the horse was faking it because it had decided it wanted to go home.

And Nicola admits Lawrie is a much better rider than she is, so she can't be that bad, and they'd both been riding for a term at the beginning of Falconer's Lure. Though I'll admit she didn't show herself off especially well in the hunting, she also didn't mess up either.

Plus, although Nicola expects Lawrie to shirk her duties with The Idiot Boy, at the beginning of Attic Term, Nicola thinks, "Now that The Idiot Boy was at last half [Laurie's], she had, surprisingly, developed a genuine affection for him. She not only fed him tidbits and humoured his fears, she stayed with him while he was being shod (supposing this to be as disagreeable for him as the dentist was for her) and was prepared, not only to groom him when Fred Studdart, the stableman, would allow this, but even do the mucking out." So... sounds like she's not that bad.

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Haven't read Attic Term, so basing it purely on Peter's Room, and Laurie's disgust at the hire pony's actions - at least as I read it - show no empathy for the hire pony.

On the other hand, the man at the stables appears bang on - the pony has learned to fake due to being over-ridden at such events and the fact that they didn't tell her about it or suggest that a good whacking would solve its problems suggest that the pony is quite right in its attitude. And I've never yet got on a lazy hired horse without being warned I'm on a slug and a ham artist - the only time a stables has withheld information from me, they thought it amusing not to tell me I was on the yard's inveterate racer.

Even if that hunt only meets twice a week and assuming that pony follows it regularly (which is the implication I get from the stables hiring it out), it's more than I'd expect one animal to be able to cope with in a season. If you're going to hunt twice a week, you nearly always need more than one horse.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Yes, she does seem to regard it sort of like a hire-car that's run out of petrol - but nevertheless, she does do all the right things - dismounting, walking it etc. Lawrie is, I'd say, pretty lacking in empathy in general, but she does act correctly in this situation, which doesn't spell "bad horsewoman" to me.

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

The lack of empathy is exactly what spells bad horsewoman to me, though.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. but I'd argue you can be a good (ie accomplished) rider and a bad horsewomen, and in my original post, I said Lawrie was a reasonable rider. I shouldn't have changed that to "horsewoman". Plus I think her behaviour in the Attic Term shows she evolves into an empathetic rider.

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

You see, past a certain level, they're indistinguishable to me. You can't be a good rider without being a good horseperson, not least because the horse's needs are always paramount.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Nevertheless, that's beside the point - the point originally being Lawrie can ride well (according to Nicola), and does treat her horses well, from what we see.

[coughingbear]

Actually Lawrie, IIRC, finally does show some empathy for the pony; having got all indignant about the fact she'd hired it for the whole day, she suddenly sees it as having behaved rather cleverly, much as she might in the same circumstances, and feeds it the sugar lumps she'd brought. But of course as you say the point that the man at the stables made is that if it's a fast hunt, three hours or so is long enough for any pony, whether hired or belonging to Lawrie.

I wonder if there's some other stuff going on here with Ginty? She had half a term off following the events of Marlows and the Traitor, which were compounded for her by having been trapped in a bombed house some time previously, so perhaps Mrs Marlow thinks Catkin will be good for her as she clearly does enjoy riding and is good at it, and that having full responsibility for him is also important (which is one of the things I thought was going on in her not being allowed to lend him to her sisters).

(Want to borrow Attic Term?)

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Oooh, that's a good point - like as a confidence building exercise? That could certainly have been part of Mrs. Marlow's reasoning, and definitely not something she'd share with the other children, nor one that Lawrie would be likely to think of herself.

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Waiting for GGB to produce it, thanks. Marcus already offered ages ago. Still touched that he and AJ *never* mentioned *that* chapter in Peter's Room that led to me bursting into tears in a Hampshire pub...

[coughingbear]

That would be the always much rather it were one of the family chapter?

Feel rather envious that you still have unread Forest.

[owl]

She whines and vacillates until Peter and Nick have bought the Idiot, and then throws a giant strop because she's lost her chance.

Really it's Nicola who comes off worst in the horse thing; she buys half a pony, then swops it with Lawrie in return for the complete works of Shakespeare. Lawrie's already extracted a number of valuable items (eg his radio) from Peter, in return for what, I don't know.

Was Peter's and Nicola's purchase of the Idiot subsidised by the adults? That would partly make up for Catkin.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

She whines and vacillates until Peter and Nick have bought the Idiot, and then throws a giant strop because she's lost her chance.

Heh. That pretty much encapsulates Lawrie for me, bless her.

Not sure about the subsidising - did Nicola still have her money from the hawking book? But where did Peter get his half?

Hmmm, just looked it up - The Idiot Boy was 50 guineas, and their mother suggested they cash their Savings Certificates to buy him (referring to Peter and Lawrie).

Completely off-topic - I couldn't remember in which book they buy him, so I was just checking through The Ready-Made Family; I started reading the last bits with Nicola and Rose and got such a lump in my throat. Nicola is so brave in that.

[(Anonymous)]

Not sure about the subsidising - did Nicola still have her money from the hawking book? But where did Peter get his half

Wouldnt he get paid as a Dartmouth cadet? (I know he's younger htan they are now.)

I think Nicola did use her hawk book money, because she was thinking of using it for Catkin (at Rowan's suggestion) until Patrick said that he would be too much for her.