least favourite?

[blonde222.livejournal.com]

Which is your least favourite Marlow book, and why?

Comments

[robvic.livejournal.com]

well, just read The Thuggery Affair for the first time (shock) and didn't like it that much. But it might grow on me. And the first time I read Peter's Room I didn't like it either - all the Bronte make-believe put me off. But it was better second time round.

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I think The Marlows And The Traitor is the one I re-read the least - it feels more like a generic childrens' adventure story than the others, and I prefer the books where the characters are older. I'm also not very struck on the rather babyish illustrations in the edition I've got.

The Thuggery Affair has a lot of strikes against it - the occasionally quite impenetrable coffee-bar slang, the unlikeliness of the plot, the lack of Nicola - but it does have a lot of Lawrie and a lot of Patrick, and I do love Patrick and Jukie's long drive through the night.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Ditto on The Marlows and the Traitor: plot-wise it's venturing close to Blyton territory, even though very much not doing an Enid with it.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Like the above posters, I think The Thuggery Affair and The Marlows and the Traitor are my least favourites, or at least the ones I've re-read least often. I feel like the characters are less fully-developed in Traitor than they later become (isn't it one of the earliest ones she wrote?), and I don't especially like the 1960s theme in Thuggery. Plus the lack of Nicola, which means no Nicola and Patrick interaction.

Can we say favourites too? I have the feeling that there'll be less difference among least favourites than among favourites.

[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

The Thuggery Affair Impenetrable slang and no Nicola (plus, even by her own standards, Lawrie behaving like a nit of the steamiest type).

But I'd like to put a few words in defence of Traitor, of which I am fond.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Ok, what do you like best about Traitor? I've actually only read it twice, and I just remember not enjoying it as much as the others - maybe I need a re-read?

[robvic.livejournal.com]

I like Traitor too. You get a fair bit of background (Ginty being trapped in the blitz, Peter's odd friends) and it does get exciting at the end. Nick and Peter are on good form too.

[coughingbear]

I like Traitor too. I like Nicola in it, and Anquetil, and Peter agonising about the boat thing, and I think Foley is fascinating. And the destroyer 'like a lance at rest'. And Lawrie thinking about how 'when I'm in films I must remember this'. And also the way what happened lies buried but not lost beneath the subsequent stories; was reminded of this when reading bits of Thuggery yesterday, when Patrick asks why they would think of spies, and Peter silences Lawrie with a furious look. (Really, it's amazing she hasn't given the whole thing away by now. Surely surely she's told Tim.)

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, you're all making a re-read sound very tempting. Perhaps I should go re-assess it.

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I have a least favourite, as I can see plenty of positive points in all the Marlow books I've read (not all of them - I've never read Traitor, and there are others I haven't read since I was a kid). I do prefer the Kingscote books on the whole, but in defense of The Thuggery Affair, I really like the interplay between Peter, Patrick and Lawrie, and the plot of the book as a whole; I also like the way the intruduction of Jukie et al makes the Marlows' and the Merricks' social position clearer. The slang does make it rather incomprehensible at times, and rather more dated than the others.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

I love The Thuggery Affair, in a weird sort of way - I love the interactions of Patrick, Lawrie, and Peter, just because that's three characters we never see interacting as a threesome in any other book.

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

It drives me bananas because I lived that time and the language is completely wrong. And it's not just wrong, it's inappropriate. If you are using language to shut out the Authorities, when you need to communicate you don't use your group's argot, you go all diglossal and talk proper.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

It drives me bananas because I lived that time and the language is completely wrong.

*nods* That bugs me too. Dialect always tends to bug me, unless the writer is a native speaker and knows exactly when to use it.

But I do like the character interaction. And the language is so wrong it's like she's not even trying to imitate, just making it up as she goes along.

[melandraanne.livejournal.com]

The Marlows and the Traitor is the one I've read the least, I think. I can't think of as many 'favourite bits' in the book - although perhaps I should re-read it again... I agree that it sounds more like a 'standard' adventure story than a 'real' Marlows book.
The Thuggery Affair is hard going, but I must admit I like it - the interaction between Patrick and Jukie, and between Patrick and Peter is very compelling. And it's also interesting to see the characters without Nicola for once - a brave move !

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

I agree that it sounds more like a 'standard' adventure story than a 'real' Marlows book.

I seem to remember reading that AF wanted to write a (children's?) book about a traitor, and since she'd already written about the Marlows before, she slotted the children in as the protagonists. So it was more a book about a traitor than about them, if that makes sense.

[debodacious.livejournal.com]

She told me that - she was thinking up children to meet Foley and said "it occurred to me the younger Marlows would do very well". It has grown on me as an adult but as a child I found it dull.

I am a Thuggery fan - lots of classic Lawrie-isms, and I like Patrick and Jukie's drive too.

My least favourite is probably The Attic Term - I find myself frustrated with Ginty and I think some of Patrick's less attractive qualities are on show.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

She told me that - she was thinking up children to meet Foley and said "it occurred to me the younger Marlows would do very well".

You mean... you met her? Can I touch you? :)

I thought it was something like that - I think it shows to a certain extent, though what I actually like least about Traitor, now I've thought some more about the subject, is that it takes place over a relatively short timeframe. I like the ones that describe a longer period of time, at least a couple of weeks or so, as you seem to get more backstory and feel for the characters. Well, I do anyway. That's probably also one reason I didn't love Thuggery.

[debodacious.livejournal.com]

Alas and alack we never met - but we did write on and off for about 10 years and exchanged Christmas cards, and I did an article for Book and Magazine Collector which she kindly helped with. I regret not having made more effort but I always felt I didn't want to bother her. But I did put her in touch with other people who have gone on to meet her and get to know her.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

How exciting! I'm jealous! *g*

I wish I'd had chance to write to her - I read the four school stories when I was a lot younger, borrowed from the library, and then the library got rid of them. As I grew up, I wanted to re-read them, but couldn't remember who'd written them - and I wasn't at that stage au fait enough with the internet/computers to just google around to find out. Then I saw her obit in The Times, realised who she was and found the rest of the stories; I was so pleased to have found the other novels, and so sad that I found them like that.

What with AF, Mary Renault and Edith Pargeter, all my favourite female English authors have died before I've got really into their work.

[debodacious.livejournal.com]

She was the recipient of my one and only fan letter and it led to an acquaintanceship so I'm glad i did it.

[coughingbear]

Probably Thuggery Affair, though I was re-reading bits of it last night as the GGB copy had arrived (my precious Faber Fanfare is going at the spine rather) and remembered how much I like the early scenes when they take the canoe down the river and the interaction between Lawrie, Peter and Patrick.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

And pigeon-geeking an interesting change from hawks in the avian expertise realm!

[coughingbear]

Yes - though I find it a bit difficult to believe that both Patrick and Peter are such experts!

[blonde222.livejournal.com]

My question was prompted by the arrival of my GGB Thuggery, I must say. As the last remaining Marlow book to be read by me, I desperately wanted to enjoy it but felt frightfully disappointed.
A) the slang was painful: god knows how it must have read before the editors watered it down!
B) while I've always found the hawk-and-pony info interesting, I was bored horribly by the pigeoning. And the whole Selby tale to explain Peter knowing all about pigeons was the least credible thing I've ever read in an AF book!
C) a few inexplicable plot weirdnesses which are very un-AF and reinforce the distinct impression that this was characters fitted to a plot rather than a plot arising out of the characters (eg, as Mrs Marlow says to the policeman, why didn't they just ask her to run them over to Colebridge? - it's hardly as if she had anything else to do, after all...)
D) the fact that Rowan is given precisely two sentences to say, and one shrug, in the entire book. I realise that Lawrie doesn't have the same relationship with Rowan as Nicola does, but Rowan/Peter have always seemed to be quite pally, and one would think that Peter would enlist her to assist, partic when it is suspected that the Thuggery have been injuring her cattle...

Having said all that, the good points: the whole Lawrie/Red Ted thing: really funny. I am desperate for an opportunity to use "slicklet chicklet"... The Patrick/Jukie conversation is interesting, partic when Jukie starts dropping "sham Yankee" and slips back into North Country when he talks about his upbringing. Also the bit where Regina comes back: this had been a major puzzle for me (how come Regina goes in Falconers Lure and then reappears in later books) so it was good to have that cleared up.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

A) the slang was painful: god knows how it must have read before the editors watered it down!

Is it watered down in the GGB version? That's interesting. We should do a comparions thing - I've got the Faber Fanfare edition.

[blonde222.livejournal.com]

Oh no, sorry, I didn't mean that. The GGB edition is exactly the same as the hardback. But I think I read somewhere that the original slang in Antonia Forest's drafts of the book was so unpenetrable that it had to be slightly watered down by Faber so's people could follow what was going on.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Oh right, I see. Yes, it must have been pretty unreadable to begin with, if what's in the published book is a watered down version!

[richenda.livejournal.com]

I've come a bit late to this one, but I've got a vague recollection of someone saying that AF made up the slang - it certainly isnt like nything I remember from the 60s or 70s - in order to keep the chronology mysterious - like not mentioning rationing.

[owl]

I'm jealous of all these people who already have their Thuggery Affairs. Amazon hasn't dispatched mine yet. I hope they're going to...

My least favourite, giving current lack of TTA, is Attic Term. Too much of Ginty and Patrick not at their bests.

[jen-c-w.livejournal.com]

Tsk for all the people knocking Attic Term. Ginty's adorable in it - and Patrick...quixotic, charming and diffident. I don't know, I've always really liked that one.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

It's one of my faves too - I'm thinking about starting another thread to discuss favourites, but are people all talked out, do you think?

[jen-c-w.livejournal.com]

oh _good_ I thought I was the only one who liked that. Um, maybe leave it for a little while perhaps...there's possibly only a finite number of topics, without it getting into a "which marlow do you think had the best shade of blonde hair" forum!

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you could be right - and I don't want to hog all the topics for discussion either! Maybe next week.

I always loved Attic Term for the Ginty-Patrick-Nicola dynamic. Also because so few (that I've read, anyway) girl's school stories from that era ever focus on textually acknowledged dating or romantic feelings, so it makes a nice change. I'm not talking about subtext, btw - that's obviously much easier to find.

Of course, the Trebizon series does tackle dating far more, but I think of those as being more modern, though I doubt the gap between the last Marlow novel and the first Trebizon novel is much more than 10 years.

[jen-c-w.livejournal.com]

*grins* I liked those too. Although not _as_ much...there's a startling lack of trebizon communities y'know if you wished to fill your time...

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Heh. I would, but my time is way over-filled. I shouldn't even be here, but once I found this community, I couldn't resist getting involved (a bit too involved, in fact :)).

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Amen to that! With my preference for flawed protagonists, I love having more of Ginty on centre stage instead of the unrelenting nobility of Nicola. I also particularly like the inside scenes from the Merrick family, especially Patrick's relationship with his father.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Least favourite is probably Falconer's Lure. But this is just because you asked me: I really like them all, and would have found it hard to pick one out. The least necessary one, to me, is that one.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

The least necessary one, to me, is that one.

Can you elaborate on why that is?

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Because what it feels like to me is backstory. It sets things up - Peter and Patrick's prior friendship, Patrick's shyness, Nicola's fascination with hawking as much as with Patrick, Nicola's and Patrick's friendship, why the Marlows are at Trennels during holiday stories, Ginty and Ann's mirror-image characters, Rowan's sense of responsibility (and why she's now learning to run Trennels), Nicola and Mr Buster and Sprog - it all gets outlined in Falconer's Lure. But you could read all the other Marlow books and skip Falconer's Lure and still find all these things out - not all in a oner, but bit by bit through the various novels. Autumn Term is also an introductory novel - Nicola trying to figure out what she could deduce about Kingscote from the hats of her older sisters is a lovely bit of exposition - but it also has story-in-its-own-right, with the Guides and the play and Lois interweaving between the two. Falconer's Lure doesn't really have that much of a coherent narrative, though lots of things happen - rather like a long lazy summer holiday in itself, I suppose.

So, though I like it, I could do without it.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

It's funny, because the backstory is exactly why I do think it's necessary.

But then, I read all the school stories years before the rest (my library only had those four) and Falconer's Lure was the first holiday novel I read; so it filled in a lot of things I'd been wondering about. It might have been stuff I could extrapolate from the other novels, but it was nice to find out properly how Patrick and Nicola became friends and how she got the Sprog etc.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

As I said: I like all the novels. It's just that Falconer's Lure is the one that I think you could abstract from the all-novel narrative without anything falling apart. It's backstory, so by definition it's not necessary - just nice-to-have.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

I think I see what you mean - but I feel differently because I generally think backstory is necessary for my full enjoyment of the series.

I also like the meandering nature of Falconer's - I felt I got to know all of the children a lot better, reading about them just doing everyday things.

[owl]

I like FL a lot too. I definitely wouldn't do without it.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Would you really opt to do without Attic Term (which by me has way too much Story in it to do without, even if neither Ginty nor Patrick show at their best), though?

I mean, it's not that I actively wish to do without FL. It's just that if you lined up all the Marlow books and I had to pick one, that would be it.

[blonde222.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't do without FL. I love the scene where they are all gathered in the old playroom filling out forms for the Festival, and I also love the whole story about Lawrie and Ellen Holroyd. It always makes a nice change to see Lawrie doing something well and not just being daft.

If I had to ditch one it would either be 1) the Thuggery 2) Marlows & Traitor or 3) Ready Made Family.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

I must admit, I think that if I had to excise one from the series, it'd be [i]Thuggery[/i] - not because I don't like it, but purely because I think it affects the other books the least. The story is the most disconnected from the rest, both in feel and in content, as far as I'm concerned. If it were removed, I don't feel it wouldn't really leave a gap in the "necessary" information.

I'd never ditch Ready-Made Family though - I wondered for years where Kay's family had come from in Cricket Term, so it was brilliant to finally find out!

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Ready-Made Family is my favorite non-school book! The audacity of the situation AF puts her characters and the skill with which she handles it is wonderful.