catholic question?

[antfan.livejournal.com]

So good to find this site, full of other people who share a passions for the Marlows    Fascinating that people have such very different responses. Never occurred to me that you could love the books but not Nicola, or that anyone actually liked Patrick Merrick….   So I’d like to ask opinions about something I find puzzling. All the obits/biogs say Antonia Forest was such a strong catholic, and yet why (to my mind) are her noncatholic/nonreligious characters so much more appealing? And her catholic characters so strongly unappealing. Mme Orly is a nightmare –fun to read about, but a nightmare – and then there’s Patrick… I suppose he is the major example. To me he always seems both arrogant and a prig, and his religious certainties always seemed a big part of this. He is just way too certain of himself and his beliefs.   Some examples: In conversation with Rowan, he states that of course he never has any difficulties at all in believing in God (End of Term). Nicola, following a conversation with him, reflects that she hopes her ancestors were genuine believers in Protestantism, as anything else would seem so inferior to the Merricks, with their acceptance of possible martyrdom. (interesting: she seems to detect in his religion a kind of dynastic superiority rather than a personal spirituality!) In the same conversation Patrick makes clear that he sees the whole of English history through a Catholic prism – completely writing off the Tudors and the Restoration, and stating that of course his family supported Charles not ‘Orrible Oliver during the Civil War. (And more fool them, as Oliver Cromwell’s regime was notable for its toleration towards Catholics – far more so than after the Restoration.) Patrick’s certainties (religious, social, intellectual) are not even much shaken up by his long talk with Jukie (Thuggery Affair) although he does at least find Jukie’s DIY theology baffling, rather than amusing (as we are told would usually be the case). Is such cast-iron certainty/superiority really an attractive feature in someone who is only fifteen/sixteen? Wouldn’t you want to shoot him for such smugness!   Most tellingly, I can’t think of any notable example of kindness or generosity by Patrick, religiously inspired or not. Quite the opposite, in the whole betrayal of Nicola for Ginty -which makes it all the more annoying she is just delighted to get him back!)   (Oops – I suppose Patrick’s willingness to help Jukie – at some personal risk – is an example here. However, Jukie dies and the incident seems to have no lasting effect upon Patrick at all.)   ALSO I can’t help noticing that AF herself chooses for her main characters people who are both open-minded and reflective and generally of no strong religious conviction at all. (Does this mean she likes them best?  Or she thinks they are more appealing to readers?  )In End of Term, Nicola is both thoughtful and intrigued by the different religious beliefs she encounters, almost sociologically observant, but very far from expressing any particular belief herself. This makes Nicola a lot more appealing in my eyes…she is also generally a kinder person than Patrick, and far more reflective about herself and her own behaviour. For that matter, Lawrie (who states that she thought Christianity was some sort of mythology, like the Olympians, and even tries to make bargains with God) is a lot more appealing than Ann (full of conventional religious piety).     Then there’s Nicholas and Will (Player’s Boy/Rebels). AF’s Will is surely one of her most appealing characters: wise, ironic, shrewd, detached…and he has no interest in supporting the Old Religion. Furthermore, he believes Nicholas is right to betray the Essex plotters regardless of the fact that some of them are hoping to restore the Catholic faith. (He and Nicholas’s scruples and regrets about this are to do with personal loyalties/friendships, not religion.)   So what’s going on here? Am I misreading the books totally? So many things I like about AF’s writing – her subversiveness (especially in the school setting), her openness to paradox and alternative points of view, and her choice of open-minded, searching, pragmatic characters for her main narrative viewpoints – seem at odds with what I read on the AF web-sites – that AF was a strong catholic herself.   (And monarchist for that matter.) Of course, I have to say it is decades since I read Attic Term – would that make things clearer? Do I simply not understand what AF was trying to do? Comments please! Tags: nicola, patrick, religion

Comments

[legionseagle.livejournal.com]

And, of course, Madame Orly was married to a collaborateur (as confided by Sue Sims at the AF Conference, based on discussions with AF) which presumably causes a good few tensions in the Marlow household now, too.

I think Patrick staying up all night lighting candles for Peter in the chapel is an extraordinarily moving scene, and very much founded on a clash between two strands of Catholicism in his heritage, the Old Catholic families and the Irish nursemaid who'd taught him prayers.

[forester48.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. It was a very Catholic act, the belief in the power of prayer coupled with personal hardship.

As a 'cradle' Catholic partly educated at rigorous Catholic schools I find Patrick instantly recognisable as a pre Vatican 2 typical Catholic child, encouraged to think in terms of Catholics and non-Catholics. The latter, so we were taught/indoctrinated, could get to Heaven but it was far harder for them. Once this idea of natural spiritual superiority has taken root it takes years of shifting. Also, I seem to remember that Patrick shows surprise that C of E types seem to wear their religion lightly and know so little about it. The bit where Mrs Marlow says the children have to occasionally turn up at church to save her embarrassment is light years away from the Catholic who would attend come what may or risk the future of their immortal soul.

Things are different now, of course, but I think AF characterises her Catholics in a very true way for the time she was writing.

[(Anonymous)]

Which book is that - the candle-lighting? I don't remember it at all - is it Attic term?

It's really interesting about the collaborateur - is there all kind of Marlow back story then that doesn't appear in the books?

[antfan.livejournal.com]

sorry - anonymous was me, antfan, by the way -not pressing all the right buttons

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

Run Away Home.