Marlow Family Values

[tosomja.livejournal.com]

I'm just re-reading Falconer's Lure, and have been thinking more about the values or unspoken rules of the Marlow family and how they permeate all the books - and also how they are sometimes pretty harsh! I was struck by this bit in FL (p 213 in the GGBP edition)
Peter has just won the sailing race.
"'Jolly, jolly good' crowed Nicola, pink with pleasure.
'Nick, you mustn't'
'Oh rubbish, of course I can.  Anyone can see he was jolly good'
'Hush yo' mouth' said Rowan lazily."  etc etc.

It seems to me that Nicola has broken one of the Marlows' dearly held rules/values which could be something like

"When things are done very well, the person shouldn't be praised much (if at all), and pleasure in the acheivement shouldn't be expressed to others"

What do you think, and what do you think are the other Marlow family rules?

Comments

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I think the rule is that one doesn't blow one's own trumpet, and crowing over a family member's success is 1) fairly close to doing that by association, and 2) Peter might get a swollen head which is a Bad Thing. :-)

[tosomja.livejournal.com]

It's not just the swollen head thing though is it - with Lawrie and acting in Autumn Term it's actually thought to be better if she doesn't know how good she is. That seems to be to have inherent problems, if you don't have good enough self-esteem/self-awareness to work it out for yourself as how would you ever know? Luckily Lawrie seems to be perfectly capable of doing it for herself!

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

Or, as I have always assumed, it is the Marlow parents demonstrating how well they know their children. Ann's efforts (at the Colebridge Festival) are publicly praised and rewarded, as are Nicola's, precisely because they both (for very different reasons) are naturally modest. Lawrie, on the other hand, has a natural tendency to over-estimate her abilities and boast about them, so her parents are careful not to encourage this.

[coughingbear]

Yes, and Nicola gets praised by her father for her Prince and the Pauper acting, even if slightly off-handedly, and he knows she 'needs telling'.

I can't help feeling that Rowan, in the regatta scene, is conscious that she's effectively the one in charge of them all, being the most competent, and is therefore being a bit more restrictive than her mother might.

Or, now I look at it again, 'Nick, you mustn't' seems to be uncredited. In which case maybe it's Kay being over-anxious and Rowan backing her up as she so often does?

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

I thought it was Ann saying that line, actually. So Rowan is not only standing in for her mother in putting Nicola down but also in backing Ann up.

[coughingbear]

Just got the book out - it is uncredited, but it was Ann who told Nicola to shush a bit earlier, so may well be her again. However, Mrs Marlow is still there, so it could even be her - but once Peter arrives, she says 'That was a fine effort.', and Nicola tells him 'Jolly good, my boy', and the others 'added their congratulations'. So they are, as you suggest, aware that Peter deserves and needs praise for his achievement.

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there's something in the word 'crowing', too, suggesting that Nicola's exclamation wasn't primarily for Peter's benefit but to glory over others nearby.

[coughingbear]

Yes, I think there may be.

[tosomja.livejournal.com]

I thought it was Ann too, something about the italics on mustn't!

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I also assumed it was Ann, though I couldn't tell you why - I think it could just as easily be Karen.

[tosomja.livejournal.com]

Yes, so he praises Nicola for something she does less well than Lawrie - it seems it's okay be congratulated for doing something competantly but not brillantly, but if it's excellent then you should keep quiet.
Kingscote in general isn't keen to reward excellence it seems - character is thought to be far more important - look at their approach to casting the Christmas Play and to filling the sports teams...

[coughingbear]

Though it's an interesting conversation he has with Nicola on the way to the car, and I think he's genuinely trying to work out how best to handle Lawrie in a way that looks after her and her talent.

Miss Keith thinks character is more important, I agree, but there are clearly other staff who would like to take a more professional approach to the Christmas Play! The other plays are cast pretty much on merit. For sport, I know Marie is shoehorned into the netball team and Nicola ousted for apparent sloppiness, but Miss Craven is certainly keen on winning matches.

I don't know, I think it's a fascinating aspect of the books, but (as so often with Forest) gets more complex the more you look. After all, when Peter gets back to the group in the scene you've quoted, he is praised enthusiastically for his achievement.

[(Anonymous)]

Good character comes up again and again - and punishment is often seen to be the way to push those of doubtful characters into line it seems to me. Look at the approach the Guides take (I know it's not school proper) - they punish Lawrie and Nicola for supposed bad behaviour by excluding them for a year, with the premise that they might then be ready to be Guides. I think the approach now might be rather to see Guides as a place where they might develop their characters and become more trustworthy within it, rather than having to do that by themselves outside before they are allowed to participate.
In fact, that could be said for everything at Kingscote - if you're thought to be of 'doubtful' character like Jan Scott, then there's no participation allowed in things like sports and plays at all it seems, although it's different for those like Marie Dobson (maybe because she is only seen as doubtful by her peers, not by Authority?).

[tosomja.livejournal.com]

sorry that was me, thought I was logged in!

[antfan.livejournal.com]

Maybe worth saying that though these are Kingscote values they are not Marlow values (AF values presumably?) in that the Kingscote staff obsession with building character is generally presented as rather silly, and likely to be to the detriment of whatever play, team or guide patrol for that matter is being used for that purpose. The Marlows seem to think that pure merit should be rewarded. that is how Nicola picks her cricket team after all.

In this respect I think AF is very different from authors like Brent-Dyer who have the school knocking various girls into shape, and seem to endorse the role of boarding-schools as being to produce and mould girls of a certain type. Generally AF seems to suggest that people retain their characters, good or bad. I do think the earlier books are a bit different in this respect mind you - in End of Term, there is a sense that both Ginty and Lawrie and seeing the error of their ways, as a result of their experience in the play. Ginty is like a transfer showing its true colours (?) and so less inclined to sympathise with the twins swapping for a team; Lawrie reflects on how she is spoilt and babyish while sitting in the bath...however, subsequently both Lawrie and Ginty resume their paths as monumental egotist and self-obsessed light-weight (sorry, I know both are more complex than that suggests) and remain as far away from the Kingscote ideal as ever....

I don't know whether this was because AF decided that it would be more interesting to have Lawrie/Ginty retain their idiosyncrisies, or whether because she decided that's how people are - they don't mature in the way Authority wants - or because they just did their own thing (as characters will do). but I do think this aspect makes AF a very modern as well as a subtle writer - that morality is complex, and the apparent approved morality of institutions so very suspect. Which is why I was so surprised when I discovered she had such a tough and reactionary moral outlook herself...

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

It's not about the excellence or otherwise; it's about the character of the one being praised and the likely effects of that praise.