Peter

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

This was mentioned in the last thread but two,but I thought I'd start a new one rather than add on an old. Is Peter a "poor copy" of Giles? We see him so much more from the inside whereas apart from a few lines at the end of RAH we never see Giles except from the outside. Peter has fears obviously but makes a point of making himself do the things he fears.And he is of course at the age of teenage insecurities etc.
I sometimes feel Peter's 'tragedy' is that he seems to have the potential to be a good teacher or farmer,(just to give two examples) but will end up in the Navy because it's the family tradition, and therefore is almost as limited in his life choices as the girls.Not that he won't do well in the Navy, I'm sure.

Comments

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think Peter is appallingly ill-suited to the Navy, and it's a shame Lieutenant Foley's blistering but no-doubt wholly accurate fitness report probably got disregarded for external reasons. given that his judgment of character is such that when he brings home a friend who isn't an outright psychopath the family are so fascinated that they stare for hours, that he panics in a crisis (exactly the sort of crisis, incidentally, that the Navy include in their training to see if people panic during it), that he has a terrible head for heights but no judgement about avoiding situations where that factor will put him and others at risk and that he bears grudges bigstyle against people who have solved crises he has been unable to, the sooner he gives up before he gets anyone killed/the UK plunged into a large and needless diplomatic incident, the better.

[ooxc.livejournal.com]

Might have this completely wrong, but isn't that why people no longer join at such a young age?
Fourteen - or whatever it was - being perhaps too early to judge officer material?
Then there's the later question of how suitable Giles was - risking an international incident as well as life and limb.
Hilary Clare once said that AF "wasn't hands -on - she got it all out of books" Perhaps she read the wrong books about the Navy?

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

Given a large number of British military cock-ups over the years, perhaps she read exactly the right books about the Navy?

Anyway, not having a friend who isn't psychotic by the age of about 12 or so doesn't strike me as the sort of character flaw age will remedy.

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

Who does he bear a grudge against?
And he copes in a real crisis - Marlows and the Traitor, Thuggery Affair, Runaway Home although he makes a few mistakes at the end which can be blamed on exhaustion.

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

Patrick for one, for the 'lily-livered loon' remark in Falconer's Lure.

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

Runaway Home although he makes a few mistakes at the end which can be blamed on exhaustion.

The reason he is exhausted is that he has chosen to take a wholly inadequately provisioned open day boat on an eighty-mile cross-Channel voyage in January without charts, lights, adequate weather information and with only one other competent sailor on board. The fact that Giles becomes concussed in mid-Channel making this effectively a single-handed voyage is an unfortunate additional complication, but the exhaustion in general was entirely foreseeable.

[charverz.livejournal.com]

Yes, very early on in AF's writing Dartmouth stopped taking young teenagers. She mentions this in the foreword to one of the books.

The teenaged midshipmen of Hornblower and Forester (and into the First World War) became a thing of the past.

[owl]

exactly the sort of crisis, incidentally, that the Navy include in their training to see if people panic during it
Which f the many Marlow crises are you referring to with this?

[coughingbear]

I took this to mean 'the boat thing', when Peter did definitely panic and knows he did. And of course he pointlessly puts himself and Nicola in danger during the storm at the beginning of the book (I think that's right, isn't it? He knows how dangerous it is and she doesn't). He does do a lot better in the crises during the rest of the book, though.

I don't know - I really struggle with the idea of Peter as an officer, though he is of course only young, and being compared to characters like Nicola and Rowan who are already highly competent and good at bringing out the best in other people. I can see Peter doing well at something that might involve risk, but I think he would be better doing it by himself. A war photographer, maybe.

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

I definitely meant the boat thing. In fact, all Peter's interactions with boats (TMATT, RAH) end up in life-threatening near disasters, which does not, to me, augur well for his career choice.

[antfan.livejournal.com]

I always think of Peter as fairly competent (!) I think because I'm much more familiar with the later books. In Peter's Room - well, he falls off a horse, having maybe jumped too many fences, but deals with his broken collar bone in a stoical manner. (And he's much more sensible about Gondal than Ginty/Patrick). In Thuggery Affair he deals with the Thugs in a fairly impressive manner - eg turfing them all in the river at one point. In Ready Made Family he helps Nicola rescue the younger Dodds from drowning and train crashes.

Not such a bad record!

Maybe he's growing up and becoming more competent as the books progress? Either way I like him tonnes better than Giles, who just reminds me of various arrogant public school types I've encountered over the years...

[jackmerlin.livejournal.com]

Oh good, someone to Peter's defence. I always liked Peter, and was a bit taken aback by all the anti-Peter comments.

[antfan.livejournal.com]

To me his very human weaknesses (er, exactly who wouldn't be scared shitless jumping five bar gates, climbing across sheer cliff faces - surely anyone sensible) make him more likeable. And maybe he should say straight out he's scared, but that's not easy when you've hordes of (in some cases younger) sisters jumping and climbing same. Giles and Patrick, with their "born to boss" masterful ways are the ones that get on my wick.

[tabithabun.livejournal.com]

Me too! I find him charming, I like the way he stands up to Edwin, I love his warmth with Fob (can't imagine Rowan or Giles bothering about such a young child). His Mummerset accent makes me laugh, he can be hilarious (e.g. to Patrick in RAH when he asks if he can be in his gang to take over the world), he struggles against his fears and insecurities and seems pretty hurt by Patrick's abandonment of him for Ginty/Nicola. I like the way he is manipulative enough to get out of his chores and nick the bathroom from under Lawrie's nose but there's no malice in him. Must be hard to be the younger brother to Giles who seems to be worshipped by all the others, parents included. I would put him near the top of my own Marlow Liking List.

saving the Dodds from drowning...

[tosomja.livejournal.com]

But his first response when he sees them climbing on the boat is to go off and have a ride by himself on top of the cliff, assuming Nicola will sort everything out! Seems a bit avoidant to me, and certainly not very responsible. Also, Nicola's response (something like 'Nicola bit back a response', can't remember exactly) indicates this isn't an unusual way for him to behave in a crisis.