How did Mrs Marlow do it?

[forester48.livejournal.com]

Hurray! I think I may have found my way in.

Sometimes I exercise my mind in trying to work out how Mrs Marlow managed to produce so many children in such a small space of time. In AT the twins are 12 and Karen, at the most, 18 so not including Giles that makes 7 children in 6 years. One child or twins for each consecutive school year. Throw into this the fact that Ginty's birthday is in January, and that if the classes at Kingscote from Third Form to Upper Sixth equate to Years 7 to 13 then to fit them all in Nicola and Lawrie must be September born 12 year olds in AT. And it all starts to become head spinningly impossible. Only one gap between Rowan in the Upper Fifth and Karen in the Upper Sixth to play with. Thank goodness the poor woman had a bit more of a gap between Giles and Karen - perhaps.

Have I missed any other birthdays to help in my self imposed puzzle? Worse than any Sudoku. I only remember Ginty's being mentioned - twice in fact.

Comments

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

I've always vaguely thought that Commander Marlow, being a great Robert Redford-esque blonde phallic symbol, would come home periodically from leave and impregnate a slightly distracted Pam. Marlow semen would be so fantastically potent that it probably didn't even need to involve sex.

[coughingbear]

I'm not sure if it works - agree about the head-spinningness of it. Perhaps the answer to the age-old question 'what does Mrs Marlow do all day?' is 'continue to recover from her extraordinary fertility'.

The twins' age is mentioned in Run Away Home as fourteen and a half (at the beginning of the Christmas holidays). Ann's birthday comes up in Attic Term, because Nicola is looking for presents for her on the shopping expedition, early in the term. Which presumably is her 17th, because she sat her O-levels the previous summer ('No, she got her eight', Nick tells Miranda). Not sure if that's any help!

[owl]

Ann's birthday is mentioned in Attic Term; it's probably in October.

The twins have to be born in July to get 18 months between them and Ginty's January birthday; they can't be any later than that because they're 13 in Falconer's Lure—and that means they should be in the same school year as Peter, but apparently he started at Dartmouth just before he turned 13. Any naval historians about who could tell us whether cadets started at 12 or 13?

Peter can only be born in September or October of the same year as Ginty, even assuming the twins were a 8-month pregnancy.

Rowan's age fluctuates; in FL she says she's 17, but in End of Term she says she's too young to drive (17 in UK), and in Ready-Made Family she's apparently a year younger than Karen at 19.

Karen must be born between September and Easter, given her age in RMF.

Giles mightn't be much older than Karen; Nick says to either Esther or Patrick that he's recently been promoted, presumably to Sub-Lieutenant. AFAIR the age limit was 20, again subject to correction. That would make him, what, 18 months or so older than Karen?

Perhaps Mrs Marlow needed Chocbar as therapy for her uterus!?

Okay, according to the FL dating, here's the birthdates:

Giles: sometime pre-summer 1928
Karen: late 1929/early 1930
Rowan: who knows. Probably 1931.
Ann: ?October 1932
Ginty: 6 January 1934
Peter: September/October 1934
Nicola+Lawrie: July 1935

[owl]

It is her 17th, because she's 16 in Ready-Made Family, the previous Easter.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Thinking about it, maybe Chocbar was to celebrate her finally feeling able get up on horseback again - 8 children in 7 years perhaps meant a long long time of soreness!

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

And of course, jediowl's masterful dating leaves no room for any miscarriages or stillbirths (not that any were ever mentioned) - I'm no expert in early to mid twentieth century obstetrics, but how likely are 8 live births with no accidents in between?

It doesn't bear thinking about, really. And she must have been pretty young when she started with Giles - doesn't she say in Peter's Room that she barely remembers her brothers who died in WWI, which implied to me that she was quite young when they died? The minimum gap between Giles being born (if we accept 1928) and her brothers dying is ten years, and the maximum 14, and that coupled with Mr Marlow's fait accompli at the Hunt Ball says to me that she can't have been much older than 20 when she started pushing them out. *shudder*

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

I know it's not quite 8 children, but my father and his three siblings were all born within four and a half years of one another, between 1925 and 1930 - no miscarriages, no stillbirths, no problems. So it's certainly at least partially doable...

I don't envy Pam Marlow, though.

[coughingbear]

It's the Ginty/Peter/twins' births which are so very close together, and require her to get pregnant again almost as soon as she's given birth. If the twins were an 8-month pregancy she doesn't have to be pregnant until the beginning of December. Clearly Commander Marlow was given compassionate leave each time she had a baby.

[highfantastical.livejournal.com]

Probably her youth was a factor in their and her relatively good health... Except the twins, of course!

[coughingbear]

I think cadets started at Dartmouth at 13, not 12, but don't have a source to hand.

[blonde222.livejournal.com]

I have often wondered when the twins' birthday is. There is no mention of their birthday in the summer term, summer holidays, autumn term, winter holidays or easter holidays, so I have always assumed it must have fallen during that void of the easter/lent term which is too boring to write about. I just can't believe Lawrie would let a birthday pass without making enough of a fuss to make it into a book!

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Heh.

[res23.livejournal.com]

Isn't there something somewhere about the treats that they choose for their birthday, and how Lawrie wants to see a partciular play or actress or something? I can't remember anymore about it, but there might be a bit more info about when, or at least some sense of whether it was coming soon or one had just passed or whatever.

Do you think AF had actually worked on when birthdays were and just didn't put it into the books? Or, put another way, is there a 'right' answer to the puzzle that she could have answered? I suppose the fluctuation in Rowan's age means 'no'. (I have always had quite a lot of difficulty working out exactly which school years Rowan, Lois, Jan, Karen etc were in, as there are various references that seem to suggest Jan and Karen in the same form, Lois and Jan together, Rowan and Lois (or at least no more than one year apart, rather than two),etc) Some of my confusion might just be that 'the sixth' covers two years, but still there are some weirdnesses that I remember noticing when I read the books relatively near to each other)

(JK Rowling apparently has loads of background info about her characters for the purposes of continuity, understanding background, and so forth, and I wondered if AF was similar in filling out her characters privately, and then only choosing to reveal some information to us?)

[owl]

No, Nick is 13 during Ready-Made Family, which happens at Easter—oh, and she's also 12 in Traitor the year before—so their birthday has to be in the summer term or the start of the holidays. And as late as possible, given that Peter has to be fitted in too....

[owl]

Doesn't it say her age in Ready-Made Family somewhere? Or just Captain Marlow's?

[owl]

Heheheh!

[owl]

You can imagine the wardroom conversation:

Officer #1: Marlow's off to see his newest sprog.

Officer #2: What, again?!

Officer #1: Yep. Hey, doc, do you think you ought to tell him what causes it?

[owl]

Oh, dear, maths.

They must have stretched a point for Peter, then. Mrs Marlow on bended knee: Get some of these kids off my hands!

[owl]

The Sixth takes two years (for most people), but counts as one form, and apparently people can be prefects for both years. The confusion happens because Lois is in Rowan's year in Autumn Term, but she leaves at the end of the next year, the same time as Jan, who was in the year between Kay and Rowan. Mostly.

[liadnan]

And clearly he made damn sure he took advantage of it. Git.

[owl]

Leaving aside Mrs Marlow's uterus for the moment, what about her husband's naval career? Either he was posted in England for the relevant period, or he conviently got leave every nine months.

Okay, shall we say: Giles, conceived on the honeymoon.
Lt Marlow at Malta. So is Pam (Rowan looking 'like Mum in the Malta pics' during Peter's Room). Karen conceived, possibly Rowan too.
The two year gap, whether between Rowan and Ann or Kay and Rowan, presumably corresponds to their father being off in his ship.
He returns. Rowan or Ann conceived.
Lt-Cmdr Marlow accidently rams the flagship during manoeveres. He spends the next 3 years on shore with frequent wifely consolation. Result: Ginty, Peter, Nicola, Lawrie and possibly Ann.

At this point, either a) he was sent to the opposite point of the globe for 5 years b) he got a helpful little talk from the ship's doctor or c) Mrs Marlow had a hysterectomy.

*removes tongue from cheek*

[owl]

Yes, there's another thing a potential Mrs Giles ought to know about beforehand: the Marlow super-sperm!

[coughingbear]

Which always seemed natural to me because it fitted in with what I 'knew' about boarding schools from books like the Chalet School series - the Head Girl would definitely be in her last year, but prefects and sub-prefects came from either year of the sixth form. Ann Marlow clearly gets made one as soon as she's in the Sixth. But why Lois leaves when she does is odd. Are we certain she's in the same year as Rowan - I know they are on teams together?

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Her age when they married, or her age then? I think it does, actually; when they are discussing Karen's bombshell round the dinner table. But I can't remember, exactly. I thought she was younger than 21, since there was a potential issue over getting parental permission to marry, but maybe the age of majority was 25 then?

[coughingbear]

Yes. And then buggered off to sea leaving her with yet another small baby to look after and morning sickness. Do any of the Marlows ever refer to a nanny? (I know Patrick had one.)