How did Mrs Marlow do it?

[forester48.livejournal.com]

Hurray! I think I may have found my way in.

Sometimes I exercise my mind in trying to work out how Mrs Marlow managed to produce so many children in such a small space of time. In AT the twins are 12 and Karen, at the most, 18 so not including Giles that makes 7 children in 6 years. One child or twins for each consecutive school year. Throw into this the fact that Ginty's birthday is in January, and that if the classes at Kingscote from Third Form to Upper Sixth equate to Years 7 to 13 then to fit them all in Nicola and Lawrie must be September born 12 year olds in AT. And it all starts to become head spinningly impossible. Only one gap between Rowan in the Upper Fifth and Karen in the Upper Sixth to play with. Thank goodness the poor woman had a bit more of a gap between Giles and Karen - perhaps.

Have I missed any other birthdays to help in my self imposed puzzle? Worse than any Sudoku. I only remember Ginty's being mentioned - twice in fact.

Comments

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

I've always vaguely thought that Commander Marlow, being a great Robert Redford-esque blonde phallic symbol, would come home periodically from leave and impregnate a slightly distracted Pam. Marlow semen would be so fantastically potent that it probably didn't even need to involve sex.

[owl]

Yes, there's another thing a potential Mrs Giles ought to know about beforehand: the Marlow super-sperm!

[coughingbear]

I'm not sure if it works - agree about the head-spinningness of it. Perhaps the answer to the age-old question 'what does Mrs Marlow do all day?' is 'continue to recover from her extraordinary fertility'.

The twins' age is mentioned in Run Away Home as fourteen and a half (at the beginning of the Christmas holidays). Ann's birthday comes up in Attic Term, because Nicola is looking for presents for her on the shopping expedition, early in the term. Which presumably is her 17th, because she sat her O-levels the previous summer ('No, she got her eight', Nick tells Miranda). Not sure if that's any help!

[owl]

It is her 17th, because she's 16 in Ready-Made Family, the previous Easter.

[owl]

Ann's birthday is mentioned in Attic Term; it's probably in October.

The twins have to be born in July to get 18 months between them and Ginty's January birthday; they can't be any later than that because they're 13 in Falconer's Lure—and that means they should be in the same school year as Peter, but apparently he started at Dartmouth just before he turned 13. Any naval historians about who could tell us whether cadets started at 12 or 13?

Peter can only be born in September or October of the same year as Ginty, even assuming the twins were a 8-month pregnancy.

Rowan's age fluctuates; in FL she says she's 17, but in End of Term she says she's too young to drive (17 in UK), and in Ready-Made Family she's apparently a year younger than Karen at 19.

Karen must be born between September and Easter, given her age in RMF.

Giles mightn't be much older than Karen; Nick says to either Esther or Patrick that he's recently been promoted, presumably to Sub-Lieutenant. AFAIR the age limit was 20, again subject to correction. That would make him, what, 18 months or so older than Karen?

Perhaps Mrs Marlow needed Chocbar as therapy for her uterus!?

Okay, according to the FL dating, here's the birthdates:

Giles: sometime pre-summer 1928
Karen: late 1929/early 1930
Rowan: who knows. Probably 1931.
Ann: ?October 1932
Ginty: 6 January 1934
Peter: September/October 1934
Nicola+Lawrie: July 1935

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

Thinking about it, maybe Chocbar was to celebrate her finally feeling able get up on horseback again - 8 children in 7 years perhaps meant a long long time of soreness!

[coughingbear]

I think cadets started at Dartmouth at 13, not 12, but don't have a source to hand.

[forester48.livejournal.com]

Brilliant! Although they are all so old. Creepy.

[forester48.livejournal.com]

If the twins have a July birthday it means:
III form 12-13 yrs old
LowerIV 13-14
Upper IV 14-15
Lower V 15-16
Upper V 16-17
Lower VI 17-18
Upper VI 18-19

and then things like O'levels, GCSE, A'levels don't fit properly. If the twins can possibly be born as late as the 1st Sept then III Form can be 12-13 and everything else fits in.
Perhaps along with the supersperm the Marlows can produce babies who only need 8 mths to gestate then problem might be solved.

[carmine-rose.livejournal.com]

And of course, jediowl's masterful dating leaves no room for any miscarriages or stillbirths (not that any were ever mentioned) - I'm no expert in early to mid twentieth century obstetrics, but how likely are 8 live births with no accidents in between?

It doesn't bear thinking about, really. And she must have been pretty young when she started with Giles - doesn't she say in Peter's Room that she barely remembers her brothers who died in WWI, which implied to me that she was quite young when they died? The minimum gap between Giles being born (if we accept 1928) and her brothers dying is ten years, and the maximum 14, and that coupled with Mr Marlow's fait accompli at the Hunt Ball says to me that she can't have been much older than 20 when she started pushing them out. *shudder*

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

I know it's not quite 8 children, but my father and his three siblings were all born within four and a half years of one another, between 1925 and 1930 - no miscarriages, no stillbirths, no problems. So it's certainly at least partially doable...

I don't envy Pam Marlow, though.

[highfantastical.livejournal.com]

Probably her youth was a factor in their and her relatively good health... Except the twins, of course!

[owl]

Doesn't it say her age in Ready-Made Family somewhere? Or just Captain Marlow's?

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Bang on in both my parent's families - each one of eight, each no miscarriage families to the best of my knowledge - and I've checked on one of them.

[res23.livejournal.com]

Isn't there something somewhere about the treats that they choose for their birthday, and how Lawrie wants to see a partciular play or actress or something? I can't remember anymore about it, but there might be a bit more info about when, or at least some sense of whether it was coming soon or one had just passed or whatever.

Do you think AF had actually worked on when birthdays were and just didn't put it into the books? Or, put another way, is there a 'right' answer to the puzzle that she could have answered? I suppose the fluctuation in Rowan's age means 'no'. (I have always had quite a lot of difficulty working out exactly which school years Rowan, Lois, Jan, Karen etc were in, as there are various references that seem to suggest Jan and Karen in the same form, Lois and Jan together, Rowan and Lois (or at least no more than one year apart, rather than two),etc) Some of my confusion might just be that 'the sixth' covers two years, but still there are some weirdnesses that I remember noticing when I read the books relatively near to each other)

(JK Rowling apparently has loads of background info about her characters for the purposes of continuity, understanding background, and so forth, and I wondered if AF was similar in filling out her characters privately, and then only choosing to reveal some information to us?)

[owl]

The Sixth takes two years (for most people), but counts as one form, and apparently people can be prefects for both years. The confusion happens because Lois is in Rowan's year in Autumn Term, but she leaves at the end of the next year, the same time as Jan, who was in the year between Kay and Rowan. Mostly.

[owl]

Leaving aside Mrs Marlow's uterus for the moment, what about her husband's naval career? Either he was posted in England for the relevant period, or he conviently got leave every nine months.

Okay, shall we say: Giles, conceived on the honeymoon.
Lt Marlow at Malta. So is Pam (Rowan looking 'like Mum in the Malta pics' during Peter's Room). Karen conceived, possibly Rowan too.
The two year gap, whether between Rowan and Ann or Kay and Rowan, presumably corresponds to their father being off in his ship.
He returns. Rowan or Ann conceived.
Lt-Cmdr Marlow accidently rams the flagship during manoeveres. He spends the next 3 years on shore with frequent wifely consolation. Result: Ginty, Peter, Nicola, Lawrie and possibly Ann.

At this point, either a) he was sent to the opposite point of the globe for 5 years b) he got a helpful little talk from the ship's doctor or c) Mrs Marlow had a hysterectomy.

*removes tongue from cheek*

[annewrights.livejournal.com]

Lt-Cmdr Marlow accidently rams the flagship during manoeveres.

I do hope that's a naval term.

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

One thing that amuses me is that it is the Anglican Marlows who are churning out the babies, yet the staunchly Catholic Merricks only have the one...

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

Back to the theory that Anthony Merrick is having it off with Claudie the jolie-laide au-pair and not elegant Mrs M, busy with bazaars in her Chinese blue caftan etc.

[debodacious.livejournal.com]

I don't know if AF did have a JK Rowlingesque back story for the Marlows, but I always felt that her remark about each story having a background roughly consistent with the time it was written meant that she had given up trying to make Marlow time fit real events, and was just content to have them exist in a fictional post war period.

The relative lack of AFisms compared with someone like EBD suggest that she was good at continuity when she needed to be; she just lets the things that don't fit quietly drop. Frex, we don't hear any more about Ginty's bomb trauma, or the WW1 uncles, once the series has moved past the point where they would be feasible.

[owl]

Well, it's pretty much stated in the foreword to Thuggery Affair. The thing that gives us all headaches is the internal chronology. Or, rather, Mrs Marlow's fecundity has us all crossing our legs.

How did Mrs Marlow do it?

[forester48.livejournal.com]

She must have had a hysterectomy after the twins because there is such an abrupt halt. After all why stop at eight when you can have babes with such ease? Unless they were desperate to have another boy:

Pam Marlow (exhausted from birth of Peter) There! You've got your wretched second boy in case Giles get killed in action. No more children and this baby isn't going into the Navy.
Geoff Marlow (gruffly, mindful of wife's delicate emotional state) Anything you say, old thing. No Navy and no more children.

(A few days later)
GM: Just one more, darling. After all we've still got to use the name Lawrence, haven't we?
PM: I'd forgotten that. Do we have to?
GM: Third Marlow sons are always called Lawrence, you know that, darling. Pleeeeeease.
PM: Oh, all right then but supposing it's a girl?
GM: (coaxingly) If it is then we'll still call it Lawrence and call it a day.
PM: (teasingly) Promise?
GM: We'll make a bargain. Last attempt but if it's a girl then this little sprog (glances with manly pride at his achievement lying in the centuries old Marlow crib decorated with hawks and destroyers) goes into the Navy.
PM: (resignedly) Oh, all right then. But for God's sake be careful. You know what the midwife said.

Potent Marlow sperm gets to work. Veil drawn.

Re: How did Mrs Marlow do it?

[owl]

*falls off chair laughing*

glances with manly pride at his achievement lying in the centuries old Marlow crib decorated with hawks and destroyers

Evidently it imprinted on the day-old Nicola.

Re: How did Mrs Marlow do it?

[forester48.livejournal.com]

Yes or something equally Navy-esque although not sure exactly how old the Navy is?
I imagine the cradle wonderfully carved but probably rather battered and unhygenic from centuries of Marlow widdle. Something else Pam has to accept along with playing second fiddle to the Navy and having to have lots of children.

Re: How did Mrs Marlow do it?

[owl]

The Navy? Well old enough to pre-date a centuries-old cradle. They don't call it the Senior Service for nothing. Wikipedia the dead handy.

Birthdays

[lnonconformist.livejournal.com]

Peter is the one who doesn't fit in, because he's in the over 14 diving in Falconer's Lure, but still 14 in Peter's Room, hence his birthday has to be in the first half of the year, which puts him too close to Ginty for comfort. I have a theory (based only on this and on his un-Marlow name) that he's not really the Marlows' son, but adopted, possibly the illegitimate offspring of Cousin Jon or Great Uncle Lawrence.

Re: Birthdays

[owl]

Well, the diving is near the end of the summer holiday, so his birthday could be in September, and if he was born a bit early, that could be why he's small for his age.

Pam Marlow

[charverz.livejournal.com]

I think Pam was probably all of 18 when she married, so is aroun 40 through the books. If Captain Marlow gets another spell of shore duty (or retires - he's probably significantly older than Pam) who knows, there might be another couple of little Marlows.

Giles - "Actually my ship leaves on an extended cruise tomorrow."

Rowan - "Mother! Not again?!!"

Karen - "I've got my own to look after."

Ann - "Just leave it all to me, Mother."

Peter - "She's cute. Oh. Ann, I think she needs changing. Me?"

Ginty - (disappears like a puff of smoke)

Nicola - "Oh good. Now someone will have to wear my hand-me-downs."

Lawrie - (pouts - "I don't get any attention!")