Fatherhood in the Forest

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

Reading through people's comments on the last post, I found myself musing on the fathers depicted in the Marlow series. Even though none of them play a major role, there's quite a range.

The omniabsent Commander Marlow seems the kind of father who sees putting an expensively framed cabinet portrait of the family in his room as a substitute for taking leave to see them (see also Nicola's preference for a photo of Giles' ship and Nelson over photos of her family members?), but otherwise appears a friendly, no-nonsense sort of fellow. You have to smile at his pragmatic military preference for Nicola's crew cut in Falconer's Lure.

Arguably the most negative depiction of a father in the series is Mr Hopkins. When Berenice proclaims Meg's tormented family life to the masses, Meg shifts from being a workaholic nonentity to a disturbing reflection of her father's abuse, reinforced by his brief, dour cameo near the end of The Cricket Term (in which Forest hints that he also abuses his wife). On the subject of pastoral care at Kingscote, it's faintly reassuring that the school did attempt to intervene on Meg's behalf, even though it didn't succeed.

Mr West is warm and engaging; Mr Merrick is wry and genial, and seems to have a pretty healthy relationship with his son, where Patrick respects the boundaries he sets and wants his approval without fearing him. Our fleeting glimpse of Mr Todd suggests to me a conservative pillar of community type who indulges and secretly enjoys the eccentricities of his wife. Then, of course, there's Edwin, who is the only father whose parenting we see centre stage in the series.

There was a very interesting discussion of Edwin on Girl's Own in 1998 or so, which revealed a divide among Forest fans. Some would have happily had him locked up for the riding crop scene; others agreed that this was appalling behaviour, but allowed him more leeway. He is certainly a stern and authoritarian parent, though when he see him he is under a lot of stress and seems used to being the disciplinarian half of the parental team: see Rose's appeal to Mrs Marlow when he pushes her to stop reading and go outside. I'm not sure what I think of him as a parent, but he's certainly an interesting and complex character.

What do other people think about Edwin, and Forest fathers in general?

Comments

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of trouble believing that Edwin and Kay would ever have got together in the first place, even though AF makes its consequences so believable. Some of the people I knew at university who were dim enough to sleep with their tutors (though I'm not sure, thinking about it, whether we're told that Edwin actually taught Kay - can anyone remember?) were a bit like Kay in being generally a bit young for their age, but she doesn't otherwise seem the type. I usually end up putting it down to him still suffering the aftershocks of separation and then bereavement.

I like Mr Merrick, which isn't something I ever thought I'd say of a Conservative MP. I think my favourite moment of his is when he's knocked sideways by Patrick saying that perhaps he shouldn't be at a Catholic school whilst the Church is saying 'all the wrong things'.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to remember why the other children were in on the discussion between Kay and her mother about why Kay shouldn't marry yet. It's Ginny's (I think) stupid comment that pushes Kay to the point of no return, but why was she present at all?

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

Wasn't it Rowan? I think they'd all just got back from Colebridge hours late after nearly-a-nasty-accident and it came out about Edwin over dinner, but I could be wrong.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you're right.

[widgetfox.livejournal.com]

Edwin, I think, so desperately knocked out by his wife's death and pretty much unable to cope with any kind of interaction. I can imagine a combination of (on the one hand) very grateful for any help from Kay and (on the other hand) entirely unable to engage with her, or anyone else, emotionally and hence unable to step out of the advancing tide.

For me, the more interesting question has always been 'why Edwin, for Kay?' I still don't have a satisfactory answer to this.

Hello as well? Am so pleased that this community has been formed.

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can sort of see Edwin being paralysed by the emotional blast - he seems to be someone who generally is competent, and puts a high value on competence, which makes him a lot more likely to be knocked sideways by life-shattering events than the likes of Lawrie who live on close terms with their emotions and are therefore used to being knocked sideways.

I see the whole riding crop thing as Edwin having sat on his own temper for so long (though it definitely leaks out around the sides and terrifies Rose and to a lesser extent Chas) that when it does get loose it gets loose in a much more cataclysmic way than he or anyone else expected.

[widgetfox.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with that. I think the anger comes from two places - rage as part of his grief, and the anger that an emotionally repressed man would feel about losing control of his household and immediate environment, in a circumstance where he is socially required to show politeness and gratitude.

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of the 'losing his place as head of the household' thing, but yes, I can see how stressful it must have been for him finding himself suddenly on a level with the likes of Peter. Not, of course, that that in any way excuses him.

From the horse's mouth...

[tabouli.livejournal.com]

We discussed this a *lot* on Girl's Own in the late 90s, and at that point Sue Sims was passing on the discussions to AF herself. I was very very curious to hear what AF had to say on the subject of why Edwin and Kay married, but she made it clear that she thought such speculations as "marrying older man out of absent father syndrome" and "divorced man acquiring pliable young intellectual trophy" as pointless and tawdry.

I actually asked "So then, why *did* Kay marry Edwin?", to which AF replied in quelling tones "Because he fancied her." Very much a tone of 'that's their business'. Not taking the message, I was foolish enough to follow up with "Then why did Edwin marry Kay?" "Because she fancied him." Subject closed.

Re: From the horse's mouth...

[widgetfox.livejournal.com]

I always get confused about AF and external world timing (cf. glorious "Marlows & Doctor") but I wonder if part of this is the 'marriage is the only option' factor - that they can either get married or part, but just spending time together & seeing where it goes is not a possibility for cultural reasons?

Re: From the horse's mouth...

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

How shatteringly possible. I do think there's much more of a sudden divide between Still At School and not even allowed to visit a charity shop without permission, and Grown Up and therefore able to make huge decisions like 'marry old, old man with three tiny, tiny tots' (or, for that matter, 'start breeding New Forest ponies'), in the books than there is for their present-day readers. There's that bit in Run Away Home where someone, probably either Patrick or Peter, says that Rowan is obviously a grown-up, and Karen looks parent-like enough for Judith Oeschli to ask which is her child, which presumably means she looks at least twenty-three.

As for the 'Because she fancies him' / 'Because he fancies her' I actually do think Edwin must have some kind of animal magnetism or at least slow-burning charm, because it's clearly not his looks or his outgoing nature that have attracted two wives. Perhaps he's quite genuinely Mr Rochester-like to those inclined that way.

Re: From the horse's mouth...

[widgetfox.livejournal.com]

Yes, and of course a lot of women are attracted by academic achievement, intelligence and / or men who need looking after.

Re: From the horse's mouth...

[oursin.livejournal.com]

As I recall, TRMF came out at a date just before it would have been plausible for Kay to pop along to the student health centre, get fixed up with the Pill, and have an affair with Edwin. Whether either of them would have done this even if this was historically a possibility, I'm far from sure. Also, the fact of the children seems fairly central to their decision to marry.

[the_antichris.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember Edwin being an archivist or librarian rather than a tutor. Which makes their meeting and getting to know each other that much odder.

I like Mr Merrick, too, despite his politics. I like him mostly because he takes Patrick and Nicola seriously - he talks to them as adults, while respecting Nicola's teenage scruples, and he has no trouble believing that Patrick might have intellectually interesting ideas on Vatican II.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

He's an archivist. I can think of ways in which Kay might have encountered him via academic routes: for example, he might have been teaching palaeography (though I wouldn't have thought that even at Oxford undergraduates would be studying this in their first year, but who knows?) or there might well be instructive student visits to the archives. Perhaps there's some kind of system of students volunteering in the archives? But it all seems to have happened extremely fast.

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I didn't start doing palaeography until I was doing an MA, though I studied English rather than Classics, which might explain it.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

I did my final year special subject in a topic in medieval history, and I don't recall us using anything but printed sources (compilations of documents, etc): didn't do palaeography until my archives diploma (actually I think I may have done a course at the IHR while waiting to get on the diploma course - but certainly nothing at undergraduate level).

[the_antichris.livejournal.com]

I was thinking he might be some sort of subject librarian, who helped classicists with research. But there's not supposed to be talking in libraries, much less flirting.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

I can't quite see first year classicists needing to have access to archives (especially as Edwin's area seems to be early modern British, given his palaeographical skills)! Possibly they met through some extracurricular activity of Kay's?